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Vote ANC, Stop Complaining!

Written by makisto from the blog Frankly Speaking on 12 Apr 2011
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Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this article are solely that of Makisto and nobody else, let’s get that one very clear Swart en Wit mense.

The race to the local government elections is raging on with swords being thrown left and right. This sees the ANC getting even more vicious in its campaigning and its puppet Julius Malema is doing all the dirty work. Without naming her, calling Democratic Alliance leader and Western Cape Primier Helen Zille all names and saying she dances like a monkey. 

JZ and Zille
Before the 2011 machetes drawing

Meanwhile, the ANC top brass are distancing themselves from the Malema crass. On the other hand, Zille is baying for ANC’s blood at the polls saying her party is the only political party that can give the ANC a run for its money. Her stance on being the only alternative sees Zille getting even more determined to oust the ANC slowly but surely.

Slogan-ning
A little while back, the DA’s slogan said Fight Back, this kind of slogan-ning can easily be read as Fight Black. DA slogan is revolving and now is called We Deliver For All. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see it is directly derived from the ANC’s A Better Life For All. Political analysts say the work of the opposition party is to damage the credibility of the ruling party. That might be the case here, but in this slogan thing, I am more of the opinion that the DA should have been more creative or stuck to its Klop Misdaad slogan want ek is baie life vir mense hoe klop misdaad. 

ANC logo
The ANC promises a better life for all, lol

Over the past 17 years, the ANC’s slogan has remained the same promising A Better Life For All. In practice, that has not been the case as we have all seen how things are panning out. It’s in actual fact, A better life for the ANC elite.

It’s War 

Helen Zille
Malema says "a White womaN in a blue dress dances like a monkey to win Black votes"

The battle lines are drawn and all the ammunitions are made twice as strong. The DA was the first to draw blood from the ANC saying President Zuma is endangering the lives of his wives by sleeping around without a condom. JZ kept quiet and it was Malema who gave as good as JZ got saying Zille’s Cabinet in the Western Cape is all male so she “can continue to sleep around”. That was 2009 and fast forward it’s 2011 and now, the ANC is feeling the heat from the DA as Zille is turning up the heat and repositioning the DA. 

ANC today
Lest we forget

All is fair in electioneering and the polls
This political showdown on the South African political landscape has all the ingredients of a thrilling novel in which the villain gets away with murder just as the ANC will be getting away with murder. JZ has manipulated people saying the DA is the devil and the ANC membership is an automatic ticket to heaven. Blasphemy at its best! Malema has entered the battle saying Helen Zille “dances like a monkey” to win Black votes. He even further manipulated people saying if the ANC loses at the polls, South Africans should hold themselves accountable for Madiba’s health if he doesn’t get well due to the defeat the party may suffer at the polls. "President Mandela is sick and you don't want to contribute to a worsening condition of Mandela by not voting ANC. President Mandela will never endure if the ANC is out of power," said Malema (The Star)

DA logo
The DA claims to deliver services for all but a leaked report may suggest otherwise

In a distant media gathering, Zille said South Africans shouldn’t forget about the past and apartheid saying it is crucial people vote a party that will deliver [for all] instead of voting for a party because out of a sense of loyalty. Zille also said it is unfair that in a constitutional democracy, White people are not allowed to say things Black people say and get away with, referring to Malema’s comparing her with a monkey. I can just imagine the noise the Human Rights Commission and Black people in general would have made if it was Zille who said JZ dances like a monkey. 

Shacks in sOWETO
ANC government service delivery in Soweto

Promises, promises – yawn – promises and promises again...
The ANC continues to make promises that people must vote for it so it can deliver basic services to all. In a move I deem barbaric, during his State-of-the-Nation Address, President Zuma quoted a woman who complained on his party’s Facebook page, saying she is staying in a squatter camp and on the other side of the road, it’s a typical suburban township. “I don’t know where that comes from, blame apartheid,” he said. I was like duh? How stupid! Making fun at someone’s genuine concern about unequal distribution of basic services isn’t on. Since 1994, the ANC-led governmenyt has indeed managed to build over 2.6 million RDP houses (South African government; 2009), electrifying houses, providing water and sanitation. However, by his own admission, more still needs to be done. “The ANC cannot undo what apartheid has done in only 17 years,” protests President Zuma. 

Open toilets
DA service delivery in Khayelitsha

On the other hand, the DA came into power in Cape Town during the 2006 local elections after it entered into coalitions with smaller parties. It was in 2009 national government elections that the DA ousted the ANC in the Western Cape. During these 2011 local government elections, the DA is using its “successes” in the Western Cape as crucial a benchmark for the electorate on its campaigning. “Look at what we have done in the Western Cape and compare that with the ANC’s inefficiency for the past 17 years,” says Zille. The DA inherited about 230 squatter camps from the ANC-led government in Cape Town when it came into power in 2006 and it has managed to provide the camps with housing, electricity, water and sanitation. 

Malema on Madiba
A picture is worth more than a thousand words

Of course, we cannot afford not to mention the so called “DA’s big stink in the Western Cape” in which Khayelitsha residents were built open toilets. “Justice, you know the real reasons behind that. We wanted to build 1 toilet for 4 houses but the residents said we should build open toilets and they will cover them,” said Zille on Justice Malala’s Justice Factor on the ENews Channel a few weeks ago. About 87% of the residents covered their toilets, claims the DA, and now the ANC is using it against the party. “If you want a party that will build you open toilets, vote for the DA,” says Malema. How rich coming from a party that wasn’t able to deliver basic services to people of Khayelitsha when it was in power. Now that a mob of rebellious ANC members in Khayelitsha are not sticking to their part of the agreement, they are taking a dig at the DA. 

Zille Cartoon
Zille cashes in on ANC's feared clampdown on media freedom

You know, this is very barbaric that people expect the government to give them everything. I come from rural areas and there, before you build yourself a house, you first build yourself a decent toilet. Therefore, I argue that it is unfair that those in cities have more advantages in accessing basic services than those in rural areas.

Nonetheless, the DA is positioning itself as a party that can deliver better than the ANC and its stance as the only alternative may just see the party getting more votes.

The death of Cope good news for the DA 

Cope
The death of a scrap yard: One man's loss is another woman's win

Though the DA hasn’t said anything about it, the death of the political scrap yard that was Cope, will see many disgruntled ANC members and Cope defectors voting the DA. However, the general consensus on the streets and disappointed Cope voters is that they are not voting this year. “Cope messed up. It presented a good alternative to the ANC. I think voting for the DA will be a big mistake,” said Realist in 2010 during a heated TVSA debate. Cope isn’t even canvassing, let alone campaigning on street posters. This gives the DA an ample opportunity to be “the only alternative” it claims to be. 

Parties galore lol
You don't have a reason not to go to the polls

The feeling is that Black people are not sure whether they should trust a party led by a White person especially after what they suffered at the hands of apartheid. I am of the opinion that not going to the polls because disappointed with Cope and ANC is a big mistake; rather use your one vote to show the ANC how unhappy you are. Though the DA may not win in most cities like Joburg, Polokwane and Tshwane, voters’s overall votes in various metros and wards will make the ANC take the citizens seriously. You don’t even have to vote for the DA, you can still vote for other ANC defectors such as PAC, or parties like UCDP, Freedom Front Plus and UDM etc etc. Come on South Africans, not going to the polls is a big mistake, vote vote vote vote Black, White, Coloured and Indian people!

Spanner on the works for the DA 

VAVI VOTES
Vavi is calling for survey results to be released before May 18

The DA conducts an annual satisfaction survey in Cape and this year, 3 000 people were polled. The reports results haven’t been released as yet. However, the ENews reports that the report has been leaked and it seems the DA didn’t score top marks in Black and Coloured communities. It is only in affluent suburbs of Cape Town, most arguably occupied by the White, Black, Coloured and Indian middle class that the party scored an overall 85% from residents in that section. The residents of Khayelitsha scored the party just over 50% overall in that section. You can imagine that others are DA voters who are not happy with the services they are getting and the remaining others are an ANC mob. Cosatu is gunning for the survey results saying they must be released before the May 18 elections. 

Julius Malema
Currently Malema cannot speak out on DA survey results because is in court facing "dubul' ibono" hate speech chrages

How can they ask the DA to shoot itself on the foot? I am not surprised though, during the 2009 national elections, the DA pressurised the ANC to release annual crime stats but the ANC only did so after the elections. The DA wanted the ANC to release the stats saying the ANC doesn’t klop misdaad and that people should use that to punish the ANC. Now tables are turned lol.

Stop your nonsense 

Service delivery protests
Vote ANC, stop complaining

The ANC will probably win in most places especially in wards that have been rocked by massive service delivery protests. It baffles me why people will vote for the ANC on 18 May then come July they will be protesting, barricading roads and burning tyres. It is very stupid. If you are unhappy with the ANC, show your unhappiness at the polls, eish, Black people! You vote ANC, you must stop complaining, darn it. 

Vote SA
Vote rainbow nation, Vote SA

Makisto enters the fray
I am sick and tired of people telling me they will be voting for the ANC because of struggle icons. I am also sick and tired of people saying they will not vote for the DA because it’s led by a White person. I am equally fed up with people voting for the ANC only to protest a few weeks later, you vote ANC you give them a chance to enrich themselves then look at you later.

Police deal in Pretoria CBD
Lest we forget about alleged white collar crimes

 I am also sick and tired of people saying they are not going to the polls. Who do you want to take decisions about the future of your country? You don’t have to vote for the top two parties, there are over 100 political parties in South Africa for crying out loud. I am also sick and tired of the ANC playing the invalid race card! I am also sick and tired of White people playing miss goody two shoes saying theirs is the best political party. Why aren’t they releasing the survey results? We know most White people claim to care about Black people when they speak with them but when they turns their backs, they badmouth Black people. 

The IEC
Vote for your future

At the end of the day, you need to go to the polls, play a crucial role with your 1 vote, vote for whatever party, the point is, you will be shaping your country by casting your vote. Don’t even think of spoiling (unmarked) the ballot. It’s about your future. As for me, I will be voting for a political party that will carve up the kind of South Africa I want my daughter to grow up in. Not voting isn’t an option. 

Vavi voters
IEC official?: Vavi is on a charm-offense mission campaigning for the ANC everywhere

Pictures through the lens of various websites on the net. Makisto sends out his politically correct love to all web content managers for programming the pictures in such a way that I can politically copy them.




168 Comments

Toodecent
12 Apr 2011 08:39

One thing I know of and guaranteed is that I AM NOT going to vote for ANC until Jesus comes well maybe am pushing it but not until some change happens.

carino
12 Apr 2011 08:55

Holiday
12 Apr 2011 09:14

LOL Zille dance like a monkey...

Guava4
12 Apr 2011 09:33

The toilet saga,the biggest mistake for da they were on track,anc have heroes and we all love them,cope should remove both shilowa andlekota then that democrazy

andi01
12 Apr 2011 09:40

As much as I like Helen Zille, but she does dance like a monkey. ANC isnt gettign my vote either.

mbulela
12 Apr 2011 09:41

One of your better articles. Well said. He who has ears let him hear.

Vandimerwe
12 Apr 2011 09:53

makisto
12 Apr 2011 10:00

LOL @ TDC, the ANC will not be winning in most wards this year I'm telling you. But Guava, if you understand the whole noise on the toilet saga, you will see it is the ANC mob who are being rebellious. Tjo Andi01! Thanks Mbulela.

maddie
12 Apr 2011 10:22

nice read makisto thouroughly enjoyed it

the latest campaigning by the ruling party scares me like the latest Zuma's statement

“When you vote for the ANC you are voting for Qamata (God), Qamata is the midst of the ANC."

in as much as am not a samaritan kodwa I really respect and fear God, some statements I just wont make them

if Qamata were in the midst of Anc, then y the corruption, disregard for the very poor people that Qamata warned not to take advantage of, hai ke a tshaba ke a thothomela.

John Lennon said something about the Beatles being more famous than Jesus and he died horribly, God not being able to sink Titanic look what happened, (well i got this from that email that was doing the rounds)


ANC will rule till Jesus comes.

If you vote for Anc you'll go to heaven, ntate Zuma is playing with fire




Mathaz
12 Apr 2011 10:40

Wow...well written piece, i could have easily mistanken you for a political journalist.  

I do not take local elections serious therefore will not be voting, i don't know who i would be voting for in any case but the DA's JHB mayoral candidate is easy on the eyes, just like Jimmy Manyi who is worse than Malema with his verbal diarhoea.

I am suprised that the ANC has not ditributed food parcels as yet, they seem to be desparate for votes, even using Mandela and God's name in vain.  People are really tired but truly speaking in the rural areas and the locations, the ANC does not have solid competition, yes the DA might win the Western Cape again but that is the only Province and metropolis i see them controlling.

The South African voters lack political education hence votes are always along racial lines and the ANC knows too well that even if the people would protest, they would still vote for them coz there is no alternative to the ANC.  As long as the ANC keeps on controlling and winning the rural votes, the ANC would keep on ruling until there is an alternative there.  

I hope Magwaza-Msibi's party does well, i like that woman and she might be alternative in KZN.  

makisto what about the plotters who want to oust Zuma in 2012??  I think there is a story there....I am just suprised as to how the two most opportunists people in the history of ANC are mentioned but yet the ANC is not taking this issue serious...

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:16

Before I start reading in detail ... One correction for an error in the pictorial ... the open toiet is actually an ANC service delivery result in Khayelitsha ... it only became an issue after the ANC had lost the province to the DA ... and I am not a DA supporter by any means!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 11:32

As i read im torn between laugging and crying. But at most, our political situation is pitiful...

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:35

Very nicer article makisto! Frankly, I loathe politics, however, we all have an obligation to exercise our hard fought for franchise. I will definitely not be voting DA, scare monkey-chameleon-windbag-opportunist hybrids scare the living dickens out of me! I will definitely not be voting ANC, all I seek is a credible, viable alternative to take a seat away from the ANC and the DA. I will definitely not waste my vote by abstaining, I will use my franchise diligently, and make sure that the "official opposition" realises that there is no official opposition, however, I need the ANC to understand that it has failed its mandate to the people. My reality is that I am from Pretoria, and blessed to be home during polls, and my dilemma is that there is no one credible to vote for. I don't want a politician lobbying me by point out the shortcomings of everyone but himself ... I want someone to step forward, tell me this is what I stand for ... have a credible record behind him/her, and convince me that he/she (not their party is going to do the right thing once I put him in a seat ... there is nothing viable out there. I need choices, I only see the same faces, same hear the same voices I heard the last time people were promised things that never could, nor ever will happen! Welcome back to South Africa Vusi, albeit for a very short few months ... Got to Love Mzantsi!

maddie
12 Apr 2011 11:37

mina my gripe le ANC ke corruption - u find someone 2 be corrupt but then instead of  firing that person and making sure he/she never finds a job in government u redeploy the very same person, same salary and perks if not more, and u tell me I should take a party like that seriously hai cha ngiyabonga

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:42

Congratulations Cheesa ... make your vote count! vote with the heart and for what you believe is right, not with sentiment, sentiment has no place in our political landscape anymore ... it is truly the time for people to put the politicians in their place ... If you don't You will all find yourselves referred to one day as "Civilians" an not "CITIZENS", .... Oooops ... It may be too late already! To those who do not know ... in intelligence terms, little shifts in nuance like those may seem semantic ... they're actually called discrete or passive disenfranchisement. Your mind gets used to not being a citizen (the most powerful position an individual can hold in any country) to being a peripheral entity outside of paramilitary modalities .... without franchise or rights ... that is where most of you are ... if you don't make changes, one day ... you will be called civilians to your face, and you will actually believe it is a compliment!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:42

Congratulations Cheesa ... make your vote count! vote with the heart and for what you believe is right, not with sentiment, sentiment has no place in our political landscape anymore ... it is truly the time for people to put the politicians in their place ... If you don't You will all find yourselves referred to one day as "Civilians" an not "CITIZENS", .... Oooops ... It may be too late already! To those who do not know ... in intelligence terms, little shifts in nuance like those may seem semantic ... they're actually called discrete or passive disenfranchisement. Your mind gets used to not being a citizen (the most powerful position an individual can hold in any country) to being a peripheral entity outside of paramilitary modalities .... without franchise or rights ... that is where most of you are ... if you don't make changes, one day ... you will be called civilians to your face, and you will actually believe it is a compliment!

maddie
12 Apr 2011 11:43

do monkeys dance?

ANC and DA - 2 sides of the same coin

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:48

.... It is Makisto and most journos fault by the way ... Improper use of language permeates society through their generalised use of colloquialism ... Stop referring to our presidents as Thabo, Jacob, and Zuma .... and present them by title ... they are no less important as chief executives than Barack Obama is to the USA .... BTW, President Obama is the first president in the USA to be referred to in news reports generally by name without title ... my opinion is that is is because of his half skin colour, but my opinion is my own. It lacks the respect and reverence it should carry ... How many of us will tolerate three year olds referring to us by first names, if we reintroduce tiers of respect and reverence to society, the natural social order creates boundaries we would respect ... and politicians would somehow at some point remember that they work for us, and that they are there purely because our franchise put them there ... little things easily forgotten when the two ends of society forget their respective positions one-to-the-other!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 11:49

WE CAN FIGHT NOW!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 11:54

I found it interesting and heart warming that the number of local governemnet mayoral candidate entries have increased significantly this time arround. And that is apparently due to the independant candidates.
I would rather vote for this independant candidates because they are most likely to do be in this for credible reasons than the politically affiliated candidates. This would be upon finding out who they are, their resume and what they "promise".

PS:...i try every day to catch the lection debates on sabc1 on sunday....absolute utter rubbish!!!   When will this politicians respect and take the people seriously mara?...in rallies, its fine, they can play games with their followers but on the public most forum (tv) you would expect them to take their positions seriously but no..the playing continues.

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 11:58

@Mathaz, don't you think it is with local government elections where you stand a good chance of electing a competent official to attend to your local-immediate issues.

It is where the electorate can exercise the real power to directly elect representative to the political office, unlike in the National Elections where we give away our power to the ruling party who impose cadres on us..

How about In the national elections, we vote ANC but in local government elections vote for a competent councillor or mayor ....

@ Makisto I agree with you, we need to realise the importance of being involved in governance issues of our country. That, whether we like it or not political decisions affect both our public and private spheres

The decision by government to introduce toll fees in gauteng, directly afftects all of us, our personal budgets, routes to work.. so we cannot say we don't care about politics, it is our monies/taxes that are missused by Shiceka to visit his girlfriend in prison and live a lavish lifestyle



makisto
12 Apr 2011 11:59

Thanks guys for all the compliments and Vusi's constructive criticism on semantics.
But Vusi, do you really believe that ather political parties may give the ANC a run for its money? I am not saying you should vote DA. I just want to interrogate your version of politics and understand whether you really believe, i.e, Cope which says it stands for morals and intergrity, given its current state, can really oust the ANC or IFP for that matter.

Cheesa my friend, I am happy that you will voting. Please do vote for a party you believe in.

True GA, if you looks at the promises politicians make and service delivery, both the ANC and the DA, you will actually ask yourself who is the worst of them all.

Eish maddie, the whole redeployment thing make me sick, yazi. Fire corrupt people and never take them back is my stance.

Lol Mathaz, I have always said it is actually good if one knows a little bit of everything. The Zuma 2012 ousting is indeed a story on its own, all in good time, all in good time, I will write it.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:01

When I identify an independent who speaks sense to me, and can convince me regarding what I need to hear without me prompting, i will vote for that candidate. Let us not forget that some people who present themselves as "one thing" may soon after elections turn out to be "the exact party you did not intend to empower" in disguise ... we still face the floor crossing embarrassment we have written into our laws.

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 12:04

@VusiK...i often refuse to let politics sink my heart and morale bur reading your comments just nail me down. Because it is true. Yesterday one of the most spoken about news wa the issue of corrumption by govrnemnt officials following Sicelo Shiceka's watsefull spending etc etc...i found myself pertty pissed off and asking myself what can i do outside of expressing my outrage which is a good start.
One thing for certain (IMO), the egyptian people revolution has set a good example in our time (21sr ecntury) of how to go about bringing the gorvenment to task. But somehow i still have a hopeless feeling about me or the possibility of south africans revolting against poor gorvenance. The day Zim does that, IFF the Swazi nationals manage to start their demonstration TODAY (God knows ive been waiting isnce the morning to hear whether the protests have started)...then maybe this sheepish mentality that prevails in southern african countries will be delat with....Its terrifying how we tolerate poor gorvenance on this side of the continent.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:05

@Makito ... I do not for a seond believe that any party will give the ANC any form of run for its money! There are people who will not vote DA out of principle. (I am one such person). Right now, I will not vote ANC either out of principle .... and there is a dearth of real alternatives, but I cannot, and will not waste my vote! As you may note .. I have made no reference to COPE, a party in crisis at birth, and through all its stages of evolution (considering it has not even reached infancy) is not a a party!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 12:07

@Mathaz, don't you think it is with local government elections where you stand a good chance of electing a competent official to attend to your local-immediate issues. ...absoluetley true...
I can feel that heartburn that i get because of SA politics happening to me.

PS:...  Now that Malema is back again in the limelight, i appreciate why i prefered him quite in the past months.

Mathaz
12 Apr 2011 12:08

The independent candidates are/were  mostly ANC members, the ANC did not endorse them hence they are independent, it is so wrong for the ANC to impose councillors on the community.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:10

@Green.Arrow .... There is a little known axiom in international politics that exists in the hushed cigar bars of the first world, which is unfortunately true, and may respond appropriately to your concerns .... It goes as follows ... AFRICA RESPONDS BEST TO THE STRONGEST DICTATOR .... it is one reason why Malema can be where he is, and Zuma, and Shiceka, and ... and .. and ... Dictator in our case is not an individual, it is the masses they can rile up to intimidate and enforce people, based purely on sentiment and promise that is guaranteed to fail, and historically has failed .... we have 17 years of disastrous promising as a baseline comparison.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:11

in other words, Dinku ke diTau eMzanzu

GML
12 Apr 2011 12:13

Nice and balanced article Makisto.

VusiK- I hear you about addressing the presidents by Title. However, I cannot see myself referring to JZ as President Jacob Zuma due to the fact that I have not seen him do anything president like. I feel that he has not exercised the powers he has a the president of this country.

I dont know if I do vote who I would vote for....

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:16

@Mathaz ... it is best to simplify things ... We do not have a candidacy driven electoral college, and for this to change would require a compelling case with the Contitutional court, I have been trying to work on an argument for the last 12 years to force the court to consider our electoral college unconstitutional, however, there is no legal basis for such a move ... i am not one to waste money of frivolous litigation ... If a lawyer can present me with a case that will force a constitutional amendment that says a candidacy based electoral system will serve the constitution with greater efficacy, i have the money to pay for the litigation .... But You must first win my brain over, I am interrogative, and you are correct, and as long as parties force candidates on you, the candidate will never belong to you ... it is why we had the embarrassment of a president being forced out of office by a political party! THAT IS EMBARRASSING!, but perfectly legal in South Africa!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 12:18

The independent candidates are/were mostly ANC members, the ANC did not endorse them hence they are independent,
True Mathaz

do not for a seond believe that any party will give the ANC any form of run for its money! There are people who will not vote DA out of principle. (I am one such person). Right now, I will not vote ANC either out of principle .... and there is a dearth of real alternatives,
But Vusik, I want to understan how that principle came about. There indeed is a dearth of alternatives. Look at IFP and NFP.

Yesterday one of the most spoken about news wa the issue of corrumption by govrnemnt officials following Sicelo Shiceka's watsefull spending etc 
And you know they took that money from you and me akere

it is so wrong for the ANC to impose councillors on the community.
I think the community needs to have a say on which councillor will be their next leader. It is just the same with ANC imposing a presidentonus.

in other words, Dinku ke diTau eMzanzu
lol this has some sense on truth in it.

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 12:19

I wouldn't vote DA either, and would not want to be governed by a white-led party ever again because I don't think  human beings can really be impartial when in power, 
They are bound to be sympathetic to a certain group of people, at least with the black government I stand a better chance...and yes race is still an issue in SA..politics, maybe after a few decades or next century  I'll be able to believe and trust that white have my best interest at heart

Although the ANC has blundered in many aspects, I don't think all is bad, a lot of progress has been made by the ruling party . 

We need bold leaders like Malema (whether he gets out of line or not, you need a crazy person like him sometimes to say things that diplomats wouldn't dare say), we have a vibrant media and Vavi who lashes out at government despite being part of the alliance....now we need the youth to join in activism to hold the ANC into account..

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 12:21

Wow hello GML...

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 12:21

*chuckles*....i get NOT voting for ANC out of principle, although im sure someone will say they will vote for ANC out of principle...and id like them to break it down.

But Vusi please break down what principles are preventing you from voting for the DA, and im asking this seriously because im truly curious as to why the DA is viewed in such a negative light by black people.
Many years after democrasy, i look at parties for what they stand for as opposed to what race is the majority. I am in no way fearfull of apartheid resurfacing again because we have a white woman as a president.
Maybe as a black person im missing something crucial about it. One of the ID youth reps argued that they refused to be part of DA youth because " they do not want to be associated with the authors, originators and benefactors of apartheid in the form of the DA" .....a well phrased statement, but how accurate is this?

makisto
12 Apr 2011 12:23

If a lawyer can present me with a case that will force a constitutional amendment that says a candidacy based electoral system will serve the constitution with greater efficacy, i have the money to pay for the litigation
I think it will be great to have such a system.

Thank you GML. I had to find a balanced way of writing this without beating the life out of this article.

it is why we had the embarrassment of a president being forced out of office by a political party! THAT IS EMBARRASSING!, but perfectly legal in South Africa! 
But Vusi, as much as it was embarrasing, I think T-bos did a noble thing by doing as his party asked him. I am not a T-bos fan but I believe leaders from Swaziland, Egypt, Lybia, Zimbabwe and many other revolution-ridden countries can lean a thing or two from Thabo.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:23

@GML, the strength of most countries lies in their unshakeable support for their Chief Executives once elected! You can elect not to vote for him prior to his being president, and you can vote him out if he has not performed, and you are perfectly entitled to criticize him for his failure and hope he hears you. I am referring to the fact that He is not my Pal, he is the chief executive of the country I am citizen of, and I will give him the respect HIS OFFICE demands of me, ... personally, I don't care for the man, I do not like him, my opinion of him is that he is a thug with a criminal bent, and I am capable of telling him to his face should we meet (I fear neither man nor beast ... BTW, I have told presidents exactly what I think of them ... the risk of asking for my opinion and making oneself the subject) ... I do not need him in any manner whatsoever, however, it does not detract from the fact that white presidents are referred to by title and black ones are not! The best way for him and the party to hear you RIGHT NOW is to vacate their vote!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 12:29

I wouldn't vote DA either, and would not want to be governed by a white-led party ever again because I don't think human beings can really be impartial when in power,
They are bound to be sympathetic to a certain group of people, at least with the black government I stand a better chance...and yes race is still an issue in SA
Thanks Poshspice, this proves one of the point I have raised in this article. And I respect your decision on what you want to vote.

maybe after a few decades or next century I'll be able to believe and trust that white have my best interest at heart
Hence I also aspoke about them sympathising with the Blacks but when they turn their back, it's completely different story. 

a lot of progress has been made by the ruling party 
Our concers have 3% percent to do with progress and the rest is about govenance issues and whether we have a president who is fit for that title

and im asking this seriously because im truly curious as to why the DA is viewed in such a negative light by black people. 
Me too GA

a well phrased statement, but how accurate is this?
It boils down to individuals within the party

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:33

@Green.Arrow .... Any entity should have a means to express themselves, and present their argument without always leveraging the difference and failures of another in relation to themselves without requiring the now permanently cramped finger of opposition pointed in one direction ... HISTORICALLY ... the DA evolved from the PFP ... which regardless of Hellen Suzman's vociferous "Opposition" to certain parts of Apartheid policy, was never progressive in the interest of furthering the interests of black people until they need the BLACK VOTE!, further the DA black people are not in yet in the position wherein I can credibly say that they have strategic and valuable input. Historically, the DA is a finger pointing device, no different than a powerpoint cue that says "In the next slide ... we will make noises in parliament tomorrow about how wasteful the ANC is of our national assets" ... cue to next slide, repeat the process until I fall asleep or slip into coma ... What can anyone tell me about what the DA stands for except being official opposition to the ANC? I do not know what they stand for other than finger pointing and pointing out problems .... I happen to detest economists because they present problems and no solutions ... when I hear the DA speak in any capacity .... My brain's BS metre immediately says ECONOMIST!, the curtain to my concentration immediately falls!

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 12:34

The fiasco around ANC candidate list for local goevrnment elections made me question the 'Poeple shall govern' and 'government for the people and by the people' ...sayings of the ruling party

That the electorate really do not have power in this country or the ANC steals it, we are in danger of moving to a totalitarian democracy, where we legitimatly vote government to power and the country has all the elements of a democratic state but the masses in reality have a very limited say or no say at all in the governance and  decision making processes of the country..


GML
12 Apr 2011 12:35

Hello Posh- Long time.....

GA_ I'm also just as curious because in my mind any white man who is in power tried to do anything dodgy I'm very certain that they will not get away with it. They would be stupid to even try. I think as a ,black South African woman, I'm  missing something about the DA. Why can it not be considered an Alternative?

Point taken Vusi. I believe that it's his office that commands the respect however, the person is the one that runs the office- not the office itself. Therefore a person is then responsible. JZ is responsible for running his office in an efficient manner and if people are not performing or have dont something wrong they should be reprimanded and dealt with accordingly. SO how can we separate the two entities? I just cannot.  Whats worse Vusi is that JZ himself is not accountable for the deeds of HIS office. He hides behind the collective. Again I ask, How do we separate the two entities?

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:40

@Makisto ... Thabo had to step down ... he was about to violate the ANC's constitution ... without amendment. There was never the option of his not stepping down ... He needed to have had the foresight to amend the party's constitution to separate the reallity that the party's president becomes the de-facto candidate for the office of National Chief Executive ... if that had happened, the two centers of power would not be able to be in conflict, and the embarassment would have never happened. Thabo ran for a third term because he knew that jacob Zuma was under no means qualified, and was fundamentally amoral, however, the strongest dictator pushed viable alternatives, however weak they may have been into the shadows ... and what we ended up with was a chief executive with the affability of an Afgan hound and the sensibility of a German shepard in the body and frame of a rotweiller, leading a pack of true!rotweillers

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:42

@GML ... The only way to separate the office from the person is to ensure that the right man gets into office, and that the wrong man never does!

One and Only
12 Apr 2011 12:45

If one had said in the 70, 80's etc NP would lose power to govern SA, you woud had been a laughing stock then.

This too shall pass!

"Inkohlakalo iyanuka eSouth Africa, inuka phu! Ize inukela ngisho noNkulunkulu ezulwini imbala"

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:46

@poshspice ... The people ... are the parties in this environment ... the only way for you the individual to stake your claim in the grand scheme of anything is to exercise your franchise ... I always tell people who bitch about white people and say the following .... "You are aware that if all black people stoped giving white people money ... White people would be back in Europe within 6 months? ... just make sure that the black person you give the money to instead does not turn white on you!" ... and therein lies the essence of South Africa!

GML
12 Apr 2011 12:47

Any entity should have a means to express themselves, and present their argument without always leveraging the difference and failures of another in relation to themselves without requiring the now permanently cramped finger of opposition pointed in one direction ...

I totally agree and this is the one flaw that the DA has that seriously turns me off them.  It would be far better if they did not always focus on the wrongs of the ANC and rather focus on serving their people in the Western cape.

Vusi- So what kind of a party would you consider to be an Alternative to the ANC?
Posh- I fully agree. WE can only vote a party into power they then tell us what to do.
We have no say thereafter.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:48

Give me an argument to convince the full bench on constitutional hill that the constitution is flawed, fails itself, and the people of South Africa ... I will help this misery to pass quicker.

GML
12 Apr 2011 12:52

Thabo had to step down ... he was about to violate the ANC's constitution ... without amendment. There was never the option of his not stepping down ... He needed to have had the foresight to amend the party's constitution to separate the reallity that the party's president becomes the de-facto candidate for the office of National Chief Executive

I do not believe that Thabo wanted to run for office. I believe that in the ANC candidates are nominated and then voted for. I believe that Thabo was nominated to run for 3rd term. He agreed to it and therefore that was his fault. If the JZ followers were not threatened by Thabo Mbeki they would have just let him finish his term (he only had 7months) and allowed him to leave his office without any hassles. It comes to show the desperation the extremists had hence the hasty decision to remove him from office.

S.K
12 Apr 2011 12:53

I aint voting for no ANC.. I refuse............

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 12:57

@GML ... I have no answer to your question .... South Africa is in desperate ned of social re-engineering ... such exercises take at least two generations to begin yielding results ... I do not have an answer for you regarding an alternative to the ANC, however, keeping it there perpetuates its disregard of your importance in reciprocals. it is unfortunate that we have a culture of hunger that permeates society to such an extent that people interpret money or possession for wealth or success. The core of the problem in this society is that hunger, greed, and corruption are constant bedfellows, and each further the other, and this perpetuation results in us having this forum ... The day a candidate who is nobody's friend, owes nobody anything, and recognizes the servant in himself arises, South Africa will be ready for real leadership ... He will do right, regardless of the consequence to him in popular theater ... populism and greed are eternally going to be the progressive curse of South Africa's dynamic downslide into being just another African state!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 12:57

Any entity should have a means to express themselves, and present their argument without always leveraging the difference and failures of another in relation to themselves without requiring the now permanently cramped finger of opposition pointed in one direction ... 
This is very profound!

"In the next slide ... we will make noises in parliament tomorrow about how wasteful the ANC is of our national assets" 
Just like the ANC, they also talk about the next slide in DA's Khayalitsha fuss. But it makes ense as you say you are also not voting ANC.

The fiasco around ANC candidate list for local goevrnment elections made me question the 'Poeple shall govern' and 'government for the people and by the people' 
I think this should be the basis of VusiK 's literature when presenting his case in the Constitutional Court. Wouldn't you agree Vusi that this charter point gives light on the issue of a system where people elect candidates they would like to represent them in elections. The charter doesn't say the ruling party members shall govern akere.

Whats worse Vusi is that JZ himself is not accountable for the deeds of HIS office. He hides behind the collective
Ditto GML

Thabo ran for a third term because he knew that jacob Zuma was under no means qualified, and was fundamentally amoral, however, the strongest dictator pushed viable alternatives, however weak they may have been into the shadows ... 
I was totally against the idea of Thabo going for a second term. I agree with you on the JZ phrase.

The only way to separate the office from the person is to ensure that the right man gets into office, and that the wrong man never does!
I don't see this happening in South Africa

This too shall pass!
Ditto my father's son.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:03

@GML ... Thabo had no intention of running for office ... He stuck in there to placate his ex-deputy ... rapist, openly corrupt, carrier of damning secrets ... from standing as candidate the office of the president of the ANC! With unfortunate and embarrassingly consequence because the ANC is a mob of thugs (most of the time), and the intelligentsia is smarter than to stick its neck out for a lynching .... The tragedy of the ANC ... truthfully speaking ... is that if failed to transition from a Liberation Movement to a Political Party! .... That is why YOU don't matter ... eliminate it via your vote, and it will be forced to adapt!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 13:04

i am not voting for ANC - Period! i will tell my dad and he can disown me if he wants!
lol I can relate, my two borthers are ANC and at one point he entered the clocal ANC-branch elections where a ward counsiclor was elected because people nominated him since he negotiated with municipality to for us to get electricity, water and roads while our local councillor folded his hands. During the electionperiod at ANC-branch level, he bought people booze and braai-ed for them to vote for him.

But anyway, my brothers and I always have a big argument about the ANC and its leadership and governance. They agree with me about the rampant corruption withing the party but they are still loyal to it lol.

I aint voting for no ANC.. I refuse............
lol

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:08

@Makisto ... The unfortunate reality of litigation is that it is a test of more than one set of FACTS ... Give me this year, if an event exists that will trigger a general referendum, which I can addend, and the legislature shoots it down, only under such conditions can the law itself be interrogated and litigated against ... one cannot simply decide to challenge the constitution of any country in the absence of a preceding event that COMPELS a litigant to file suit ... if parliament knock down a referendum that redefines the electoral college .... then I may have a lawsuit!

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 13:10

I am referring to the fact that He is not my Pal, he is the chief executive of the country I am citizen of, and I will give him the respect HIS OFFICE demands of me

You mean, for example when Zuma came into power his image was in tarters, locally and internationally, a lot of countries had little respect for him 

But, because of his position they have to deal with him and tolerate him coming with different wives/fiancee to state visits (even if polygamy is against their belief or his lack of education)   they don't have a choice but to respect the man occupying the office that is key to the diplomatic and international relations of their countries

it's like respecting your father or mother for just being your parent whether useless or not...

makisto
12 Apr 2011 13:10

one cannot simply decide to challenge the constitution of any country in the absence of a preceding event that COMPELS a litigant to file suit
I get you

makisto
12 Apr 2011 13:12

it's like respecting your father or mother for just being your parent whether useless or not...
True

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:19

I was once a proud AK47 and RPG launching member of the rank and file ... who did not chant as well or as loud as my less educated cadres I will not vote ANC ... now or in the next election ... I was a real candidate who speaks for the people and is credible enough for me to trust my vote with to step forward. We as a society are too lazy to interrogate what is put before us for fear of ostracism ... there are a few mavericks out there, but they tend to get expelled as immediately as they are identified, and most end up alcoholics (If they are not at the time of expulsion) ... would you vote for a frothing raging rambling alcoholic? ... regardless of hisr /her brilliance?

Mathaz
12 Apr 2011 13:20

I know local elections are the most important but i tend not to participate in them, i will not be voting and i'm not feeling guilty about it.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:21

it's like respecting your father or mother for just being your parent whether useless or not... Absolutely True ... until you can speak logically and help show them that they do not satisfy your need to for them to command respect ... it is called protest!

GML
12 Apr 2011 13:22

LOL @ Posh.  I believe Vusi means it exactly like that. WE dont have to like him to respect him.

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 13:25

LOL...before i read were i left off...lemme share and i think this is just the right platform

In the last hour, ive been involved in a racial brawl in the Lab....Makgowa!!!!!!!!!!!....i am so pissed off if this were the 80s what just happened would be motivation enough for me to go join the MK riight now...White people in engineering are the cruelest most racist ..........i need air. My diplomatic behind ya hlollwa today....i need some air.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:29

@poshspice ... separate the man's office from the person ... the office demands respect, it is OUR FAULT that he is sitting in that office ... we have no choice but make the best of it till the next general election! until that event, we honestly should respect his office because he is the CEO of our country, regardless of his character. The reality that nobody respect him, including those who profit handsomely by association is irrelevant when referring to his office. He is the President, period, it can only change when we remove him from that office, the sad reality one must always keep as a reality is that the president of the ANC is one's choice only when one vote for the ANC, the President i the choice of the Party (Candidate / nominee) ... one is capable of stopping such an individual from getting into power by exercising their vote! That a criminal becomes a President is the direct result of how many people decide to endorse such a person. If such a person succeeds, it cannot be undone for five years! during that period, his office demands and commands the respect due to it!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:34

@Green.Arrow - Tell us about your racist episode ... we have gone off topic and are chewing on Jocobos' biltong!

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 13:38

GML "I'm also just as curious because in my mind any white man who is in power tried to do anything dodgy I'm very certain that they will not get away with it. They would be stupid to even try"

The ANC is getting away with a lot as we speak, it seems like removing people from power is even harder that putting them there, once they are on the other side of the fence and have control of key govenmnent institutions like the  judiciary, legislation and are the executive,  in reality after that they don't need our permission to make decisions.....

Ivory Coast- Gbagbo, Mubarak and Gaddafi who is still clinging to power.. 

So nope,I  don't wanna take that chance of putting them whites back to power....I'll wait for a viable alternative party...





GML
12 Apr 2011 13:42

Askies GA- Do share.

I hear you Posh.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:42

/bdo not for a seond believe that any party will give the ANC any form of run for its money! There are people who will not vote DA out of principle. (I am one such person). Right now, I will not vote ANC either out of principle .... and there is a dearth of real alternatives,//b But Vusik, I want to understan how that principle came about. There indeed is a dearth of alternatives. Look at IFP and NFP./p @Makisto ... An Adage says ... "Opportunity only favours the alert mind ... with that said ... Politics is too crowded with lawyers and other equally opportunistic parasites ... One is very unlikely to encounter a credible non-opportunist ethicist in politics ... hence the dearth ... the brilliant minds cower because their voice will not appeal to populist ears and without populous support, the dearth widens.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:45

I cannot edit formatting people ... please forgive my entries ... they really make be seem an incoherent rambler ... which I am not!

myname
12 Apr 2011 13:46

Vusi u r on fire bro vandag......hello gud ppl

Maki im luving ur blog.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:51

@poshspice ... Privately and in some cases, We admired white people, and still do .... It is only natural that the ANC emulate their ways, the difference is that we are evolving from an environment of massive disadvantage, poverty, and hunger, therefore, where whites were overt, we the ANC is covert (oppression, disregard of black needs, apartheid), and where whites were covert (stealing), we are overt because we feel we have a desperate compulsion to catch up! Hunger has very deep effects on the human psyche! I have witnessed mothers sell their sons and daughters into debauchery for a few dollars, a few cartons of cigerettes and a case of beer in war environments ... what more of an open bank vault and "Hungry-Lion" you are told to sit right there and keep the loot safe for the masses! to quote the ANC ... "F*ck the Poor!"

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 13:53

Myname ... My Darling! Kunjani .... Elections and electioneering makes my Ass go Nuclear Hey! I wish the people of our country knew the extent to which the ANC sold them down the Rubicon!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 13:55

I wouldn't vote DA either, and would not want to be governed by a white-led party ever again because I don't think human beings can really be impartial when in power, They are bound to be sympathetic to a certain group of people, at least with the black government I stand a better chance...and yes race is still an issue in SA....i read this before i left and my forts thought was arent we maybe a bit paranoid the Posh if we have to make aour decisions based on perceptions, whioch granted are a results of the past...AND THE PRESENT, but we shouldnt then generalised, but after what i just went through id be quick to agree with you except i still think  that we cant generalise and expect the DA yield to overt recial politics (ie another form of apartheid) because of what our white colleagues are...the racists they be...
But i respect that you have a presopective about this that you are certain of  and comfortable with. Im in a bit of a dilema because i believe that if we let go of the fear and the paranoia about one another we can actually see eye to eye...and we know its possible from the veeeery few people (white and black) that have been able to do it. To the extent that...maybe Hellen Zille and the DA have a vision which is about "delievering for everybody", which if they were given a chance they could realise better than the ruling party.


@VusiK...i read your response to that question i asked. I laughedf too hard...but i hear what you are saying. And i still think that your opinion is very subjective...you do say yourself that detest economists. Interesting thing is that i agree, the DA rep aways sound like economists when they speak to me...and the issues that they point fingers about when everything is concidered, make sense to me. I appreciate that they probed in the economics of the deal that Bheki Cels made for that R500 million as an example of many financial mismanagemnet probes for many reasons, the simplest being that its a shame that our leaders particiapte in corrupt activities that COST the man on the street proper roads, housing etc....
I can live with the economists that the DA are as opposed to the other extreme?....God knows i enjoy their arguments the most in parliaments as opposed to the rhetorics from the ruling party.

monchooza
12 Apr 2011 13:58

i know this might sound stupid to some of yall. but i prefer spoiling my votes so that they dont count. that way i wont even complain about service delivery since i did not choose any of the clouns abasiphathayo. in one ballot paper i always put more than 5 crosses

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 14:01

VusiK "The reality that nobody respect him, including those who profit handsomely by association "

Lol  the story of our President  will make a fascinating read- the uneducated polygamist, former head of the ANC intelligence, former MEC, former deputy president and  now the president of the country, the allegations of rape and impregnating a woman out of wedlock,and that 'even close associates do not respect him'. Him alternating wives and fiancee on state visits...

There can only be one JZ, he is one of a kind, I don't thins there is anyone who will close to breaking this record!



Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:03

@ VusiK, GML..where do i start.....Im sure many people will relate to work place racial issues.... Specifically i relate to the issue of the horrific manner in which the so called "plant superintendands" (most of whom are afriakaner) treat our people in plants etc etc etc...to ALL the events that led to the brawl today....

maddie
12 Apr 2011 14:03

Last year I went to the US during election time, similar to our local elections coming soon.

this is what I've learnt.

mayors don't have bodyguards and don't get paid the money our mayors are getting, same applies to council members

anyone can be a council member even college students, they told me of 1 college student who became one for 2 terms.

runnning for councill is non-partisan.

council members serve part time cos they don't really get paid a lot of money unlike here in SA

you also need to disclose your funders, that's y Obama became so popular cos he raised money for his campaigns through donations mostly from ordinary folks.

this avoids a situation where companies will fund ur campaigns only to ask 4 favours once u'r in office.
su
every cent spent on campaigns u hav 2 disclose it and believe me the media follows that up and if it happens that they find irregularities you'll b jailed.

am in no way saying the US system is perfect but there r some things we can learn from that.

I for one would like 2 be an independent council member cos i do not support any political party i just want to serve the people and make sure they get their vote's worth.

Judging from this forum and others that I've been to we all want good governance and @ present there isn't a political party that we think is able to provide that.

maybe we don't need a political party, just an organisation of like minded young south africans who want 2 c a better country for our children.



myname
12 Apr 2011 14:05

LOL Vusi @ ur ass goes nuclear! but im enjoying your opinions and arguments bro. It’s actually interesting to read all of your replies and mna shame I’m so dumb when it comes to politics and you make it interesting.

Im still gorgeous standwa sam

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:06

@Green.Arrow ... We have eery right to be paranoid of whites ... They operate on a system that still defies our genetic knowledge (We are genetically communist - feudalist), and they are Capitalist-imperialist ... and we are 500 or so years behind in adapting / evolving. Trust me .... be afraid of whites ... They are over 99% of my reality, and when I get home to sleep in my bed by my black self ,,, I know they're plotting against me, and they will always have the advantage! My spider-sense is always tingling ... I never ignore it! ... But I need them to work and earn my living, so I make sure that my agenda is 100% catered for within what I do before I give any other agenda staging ... With me, it gets worse with Americans, English, Portuguese, Italians, Greeks, and Indians ... in that order of ascension. I trust nobody I work with, I make sure I am invaluable, and that in my commitment to fight illuminatist, I am constantly aware that my allies once enslaved my people, and could also be plotting to enslave my heirs should we neutralize the threat! All these tribes I have mentioned by the way, have never been without an enemy ... the instant they defeat one ... they create another! The psyche of paranoia is genetic in them, it would be unwise not to develop a contra-psyche to protect yourself.

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:07

Im kinda depressed for the day....cant believe im letting this people get tyo me, but they are...and they are off having their funky vegetarian linch as they plot how to make our lives more miserable, so we can all go and they get on with their business...but ofcourse they need poor black research students from other african countries and they overwork them because they arent in their countries and so they cannot complain and fight like we can.....


Back to topic....who to vote for??????

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:12

@Green.Arrow ... We have eery right to be paranoid of whites ... They operate on a system that still defies our genetic knowledge (We are genetically communist - feudalist), and they are Capitalist-imperialist.....LMLO... infact that whole repsonse had me in stiches....but i appreciate the seriousness opf the pointe you mention and perhaps the truth about them

VusiK....bro....i hear you. And the event that just happened has just worked in favour of me easily hearing you. I just need to bring this that you and Posh say home...to me, who i am and what i stand for.

One and Only
12 Apr 2011 14:16

Can you laugh at the same joke for over 15 years? If not why do people keep on complaining about the same problem (ANC) all the time instead of resolving it?

People can sound intelligent all they like in forums like this but come election time we all know who they're gonna vote for.

Complaints about the ANC are starting to irritate me like the "Vodacom is red ads" and if I hear another word about the ANC, I swear I'm gonna mustarbate.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:17

@Maddie ... Not quite true .. They do have bodyguards, and are paid ... However, they are elected as candidates on merit, be it via partisanship, or as independents. The difference you are probably alluding to is probably best exposed as something that encourages them onward, hence their popularity and seeming sincerity .... They respond to a calling to change the status quo ... AS INDIVIDUALS ... not as a result of deployment. The party here dictates any candidate's agenda, whereas the parties there have to accommodate the candidate's agenda .... and if the crowd responds well to the candidate, the party accommodates ... the only accommodation we seem to be seeing here are populist rantings in spaces where such rantings are not only impossible to realise, but equally if not greater dangerous! It is appealing to the masses because it shakes the status quo, and threatens to bring it down ... simple reality is ALL POLITICIANS ARE OWNED BY CAPITAL ... I believe it was either Rockerfeller or one of his mates who said "the Only Good politician is the one you Own", and the other goes by "I never met a politician I liked and did not Own" ... Money, Power .. very incestuous bedmates .. in ending ... What would you call a aircraft full of politicians crashing into the ocean? ........... A DAMN GOOD START!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:19

Interesting maddie...i also became aware of some of those enviable US political practices recently and i agree this is not to say the US practices are perfect....

you also need to disclose your funders.....i heard this morning actually that the issue of not disclosing funders is a stnace shared by the ANC and the  DA. My trust points went down for both parties equally....

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:21

@ONE AND ONLY ... You start ... I'll join ... by the time everyone's done, we'll have a line like we saw in 1994 snaking its way through neighborhoods in a giant clusterf*ck! Vote with your conscience people!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 14:22

intersting stuff in here, just three more comments then I will catch up with you all. I m sorry to hear about your racial encounter GA. *still reading comments*

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:23

@ Green.Arrow ... Sometimes, just like the snake said after it by its saviour ... when some whites get to be assh*les and treat people like crap ... "It's their nature", some are fortunate to evolve ... but the genetic knowledge remains for generations.

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:24

People can sound intelligent all they like in forums like this but come election time we all know who they're gonna vote for. @OnO...i actually believe that the people who complain on forums like this are the less than 30% population that dont vote for the ANC....

And of all the choices that WE DONT have when it comes to what happens in the presidency, in parliament etc....i think the this forums are important, its one of the few outlets that we have...people should use them most and maybe those in power will hear the issues that the people complain about.
The ANC needs to hear people say  "I WILL BNOT VOTE FOR THE ANC" so much that they start shaking in their boots and reasses what they have turned into....

makisto
12 Apr 2011 14:24

Tjo One & Only. I am of the opinion that election time is an ample time to speak about politics becauise everyone is interested lol. Besides, there are are a lot of articles to choose from on TVSA home page. *Just saying*

myname
12 Apr 2011 14:25

Wow i didnt know that maddie.

LOL 1 & only...u can start now sana.

To all the bloggers...hayi niyakhuluma

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:26

@Monchoos ... Not voting / spoiling your vote actually does the opposite of good .... It either does not change the ratio (which is what voting is all about ... consensus ... be it general or not), or reduces the voice of the opposition ... Think about that before you spoil your vote ... I suggest you vote, and let the numbers speak what they need to!

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 14:27

You say disheartening staff VusiK...but hard to deny and argue, perhaps because they are undeniable. I need to gather my thoughts and bring this all home....to me.

Guava4
12 Apr 2011 14:28

Good article makisto,mina im gonna vote for magwaza msibi,then cope then kiss and the party my grandparents voted for while alive anc,il go and waste the ballot paper or stay il make up my mind when food parcels start flowing

myname
12 Apr 2011 14:29

Maki i love the Juju baby pic on your right. BTW im impressed with your article. U've grown sweetheart and those cartoons are killing me. Nice one!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:31

Makisto ... Excellent Article BTW!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:33

I wish we had more People throwing their bit in ... Silent Bloggers must be Going Haaaaa! These people! especially lo-VusiK nesilungu-nyana sake samasimba! Vele uyovota u-ANC ... simple ... I-ANC, izovotela u-Nyoko this year! Not Me!

maddie
12 Apr 2011 14:45

@ the risk of sounding like 1&O's spokesperson I think he's just tired like the rest of us of ANC 's bullkak

@Vusi K

maybe in major cities like NY but in small towns they do not have bodyguards and their salaries r quite small as compared to our mayors, u find a mayor of a small rural area in SA earning a huge salary with perks and all.

I suggest we start our own party we seem to be sharing the same ideals, we disagree to agree so y not, who's game

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 14:48

"Silent Bloggers must be Going Haaaaa! These people! especially lo-VusiK nesilungu-nyana sake samasimba! Vele uyovota u-ANC ... simple ... I-ANC, izovotela u-Nyoko this year! Not Me!"

tltltltltlt @ VusiK you sound like O&O on this one.. 

We enjoyed your coments VusiK although I had to consult a political dictionary frequently 

@monchoosa, so you wake up in the morning, spend time standing in a queue just  to put a spoilt ballot paper..I suppose its another unique way to protest or show your  disgruntlement!  why don't you leave a NASTY message while at it!

Vandimerwe
12 Apr 2011 14:56

some of us are silent as we are not South Aficans so we have nothing to say as we hav our problems to deal with this site

zvee
12 Apr 2011 14:57

ANC - has been in power for 16yrs and there's a little to show of it as the protests are
           a full testimony.
DA   - are hungry for power and are in full force and want to take as many BLACK   
          votes as they can.

Lets juss think this true..

ANC is not doing as they promised, crime is at a highest point that before and I dont even wanna dwell on the issue of corruption.

DA is promising more, more BLACKS are moving to the party due to frustrations gained from our governing party.

Mna personally I am not satisfied with our ANC at all.. On the other hand I cant give my vote to the DA as I am scared that if the DA wins Local elections and they'll ensure that service delivery is good so that they win the national elections

My worst nightmare is when the DA achieves that NATIONALLY we (SA) might go  van toeka af and we return to the struggle & the WHITES will say you did this to yourselves... We must be very careful of whom we trust.

Nice article MAKISTO  

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 14:59

@poshspice .. that is quite true ... the size of the consituency, and its tax structure determines what limits the public officials.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:01

Aahh VandiMerwe breaks the fog ... Hoezit! Glad the gallery dropped an egg on my head! Who has the rotten tomatoes! lol.

poshspice
12 Apr 2011 15:03

"I suggest we start our own party we seem to be sharing the same ideals, we disagree to agree so y not, who's game "

Eish Maddie, we are too comfortable, nowadays people join politics for personal enrichment and some of us feel that as long as I still have a job, car, I can dine at Melrose and Nambitha or Neh in Alex (certain status attached to these places), can send my kids to private schools and am studying towards my  2nd degree and socialize with whites and indians, I am cool and I detach myself from advocacy and lobbying for social justice ...... 



realist
12 Apr 2011 15:04

I think voting for the DA will be a big mistake,” said Realist in 2010 during a heated TVSA debate.
Makisto, where the hell did you hear me say that or write that? In fact voting for the ANC is a waste of time and you can quote me on that, damn!!!

They respond to a calling to change the status quo ... AS INDIVIDUALS ... not as a result of deployment. The party here dictates any candidate's agenda, whereas the parties there have to accommodate the candidate's agenda .... and if the crowd responds well to the candidate, the party accommodates ...
Mantashe was asked about the above statement you mentioned and his answer was that it cost money to run a campaign like the one in the USA. 

Can anyone tell me who is the leader of the Republican Party and who is the leader of the Democratic Party in the US currently? Bear in mind what Vusik has just said above.

GML
12 Apr 2011 15:04

Kwaaaa @VusiK- I'd honestly rather have silent bloggers read than to post things ttthat they themselves sometimes dont understand. It tends to spoil the discussion especially when they are lazy to read....

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:05

@Zvee ... The day the DA wins national referendum ... Whites are going to sjambok us in the street Oop Oog and sonder genade! we will deserve it! If the ANC continues to have majorities, we will continue to be sjamboked in the street Oop Oog and sonder genade, and we ill deserve it! Vote, just do it in good clear conscience, since neither curries favour with most who have blogged here, search for your best local alternative, give him / her your vote ... hold them accountable!

realist
12 Apr 2011 15:09

Mna personally I am not satisfied with our ANC at all.. On the other hand I cant give my vote to the DA as I am scared that if the DA wins Local elections and they'll ensure that service delivery is good so that they win the national elections 

What is it that you want from these elections exactly?

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 15:18

What is it that you want from these elections exactly? ... good question, wheneere i hear the statement I am not satisfied with our ANC at all.. On the other hand I cant give my vote to the DA this questions crops up..gore then what?.....because im the DA pretty much sums all the oppositiion we have....

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:22

@poshspice .. but we need exactly what you are ambivalent toward! @Realist ... USAPHILA! ... @GML ... true ... In my instance .. I would love to trust people of other races openly, honestly, and treat them transparently ... however, it is not what they give me, therefore, why should I go out on risk .... My children see no colour and I am proud of it and admire that greatly in them ... and I will be there to comfort them when they realise that colour blind society in a mirage ... I am ready for it, at some point ... some of these these cute little blue eyed and straight haired friends will put them in their place on the evolutionary periodic table, and say "I am unobtanium (yes it exists ... not just on Avatar, but just off the last entry on the periodic table) ... together with some other unpronounceable element .... just like my poor nappy haired baby's Jaw-breaker-name sound like to blondie or Prakesh... and .. You are carbon (the universal gofer) , I'll be there to comfort them and introduce them to the realities of live and being black ... regardless of the fact that materially, we may be well to do, and them not .... Ever noticed how little black babies love to play with white or indian children's hair ... I take a deep breath every time and simply go into my study ... and she finally got used to the fact that I do not want her to let her hair grow beyond a size one guard length on the clippers ... I always say "if you start combing your hair, and keep it neat all the time, I will allow you to grow it" ... I pray that day never comes because I know full well that the salon will be next, and the relaxer, and not too long thereafter, some dead person from South America's Mane will seem Wonderful to her ... at 2,5k a month. I do not want to afford it, it is not about money, it is about the mental image of herself as beautiful just the way she is ... short hair et al ... The day the ANC can address my concerns about my daughter's sense of pride in herself instead of what is imagined ... I will start listening again. And I am not racist .... I don't like my kin for the same reasons I do not trust others ... their agenda is not my own! Howzat! for a closing!

One and Only
12 Apr 2011 15:22

The day the DA wins national referendum ... Whites are going to sjambok us in the street Oop Oog and sonder genade!

That would be painless compare to what the ANC is doing to it's people, the have sharpened the sjamboks, stick them to our asses and I can now feel my rectum up my oesophagus and it's so painfull.

I can handle any discrimination coming from all the other races but Blacks.

zvee
12 Apr 2011 15:25

@VusiK.. I LOLed my lungs out and in the middle of my laugh I juss realised that in reality you r right & stopped LOLing..

@Realist.. I want change... Irrespective of which side it will come from... Even if the ANC will mend their ways & deliver good services to the people, that is CHANGE based on their current and previous governing...DA has only ruled mostly in Cape Town & that doesnt make them any expects in this and as VusiK has already said it they might bring us back to the oldies when in the ruling seat..

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:25

@1&Only ... We share the same thoughts! I expect racism from other shades of skin ... I will not tolerate it, however, I will tolerate it less from a brown skin like mine.

Vandimerwe
12 Apr 2011 15:25

i feel gore this Article has helped alot as some of us hs been missing the likes of realist and one&only 

GML
12 Apr 2011 15:29

Vusi- Is there no way you can make spaces between your paragraphs? Zama tu Bhuti.

OOOOOOOoo 1 and O. Thats why ungahlaliseki so.

I  must say I'm more confused about this now.

I believe having a woman as next president may change our political scope for the better

GML
12 Apr 2011 15:30

Realist I agree. I do feel that We black people allow ourselves to be treated the way we do by our government. We treat each othe badly then expect Whites to respect and treat us properly.... Makes no sense at all

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:30

i am concerned for our children bathong! is the legacy we leave that of complacency, benign whimpering complainants? I am not canvassing nor will I direct anyone's vote in any direction, however, we are essentially evolving into a nation of serfs ... and we can stop it from promulgating itself into law, and simply put a stop to this madness ... Vote, but vote to drive clear a message that gives cape Town and eery town a clear message regarding the temperature of life on the street!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:33

@GML ... sorry Love, I don't even remember how to write html, and it is the oly way I can format text ... ke-Apolo ... simpler results in stupid in some aspects of it! And If I take breaks ... It'll seem like I am hogging ... and that's not nice!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:39

@GML ... I would love to see a woman candidate for president ... but she must absolutely be worth it ... and not DA / IFP / ANC Oor-skot in any way whatsoever. Makharethla in any capacity would be unacceptable ... the same reason I refuse to be with, or date any woman who has been with anyone I know in any fashion whatsoever ... Left-Overs are neer acceptable ... Now .... Who / Where would such a candidate spring from in Mzantsi ... COPE is not on the list because it is oorrskot itself ... imagine left overs of left overs ... 2nd generation lekharelta-la-le-lekharethlana .... Hmmm .... I want someone with conviction and clear single-mindedness in relation to what this country needs to step forward ... make hard decisions, and stick by her guns ... she'll get my vote!

GML
12 Apr 2011 15:39

Vote, but vote to drive clear a message that gives cape Town and eery town a clear message regarding the temperature of life on the street!

It's easy to say vote Vusi- but who to vote for is the issue at hand.

One and Only
12 Apr 2011 15:41

I believe having a woman as next president may change our political scope for the better.

That would be even worse, we had the likes of the late but arrogant Mantombazana Tshabalala-Msimang (Inkosi ibe naye shame), the hipoppotamus Naledi Pandor and we do not need another ones.

Women always tend to wanna prove a certain point and end up being heartless when they are in higher positions.

Babi omama beANC madoda ngathi badla ukudla okumuncu. 

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:45

@GML ... I cannot canvass for candidates ... in my opinion .. all of therm represent opportunistic trash! But the devil we know is no longer acceptable ... bring in the unusual suspects, lets subject them to an anal exam, if they are cleaner than the assh*les we are familiar with, and promise better, let's consider them the new improved assh*les, and put them on notice ... do or ...

realist
12 Apr 2011 15:46

@Realist.. I want change... Irrespective of which side it will come from... 
Isn’t this a contradiction in terms from your previous posts?

Even if the ANC will mend their ways & deliver good services to the people, that is CHANGE based on their current and previous governing...
That is not change, based on their current and previous governing... 

DA has only ruled mostly in Cape Town & that doesnt make them any expects in this 
Is there a change in service delivery?

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:47

especially do for me, mine, and ours .... because I am watching your Ass! Candidates need to feel the microscope ... I will keep hunting for an argument that can compel a lawsuit that can bring about electoral reform .... constitutionally

realist
12 Apr 2011 15:50

I believe having a woman as next president may change our political scope for the better. 
GML, my problem with a woman president is the telephone bill. Take a look at the telephone bill where the woman is in charge of a department, you will be amazed.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:51

LOL ... at least we will be bitching about phone hills and not 25 cars for her harem's fleet!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:53

... unless she's bi / gay ... and does have harem

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 15:55

But honestly ... Candidates without parties are where I am looking for alternatives

maddie
12 Apr 2011 15:56

i am that woman ha ha ha vote for me

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 15:57

Okay....LMLO.....

makisto
12 Apr 2011 15:59

Realist, I have been trying to check out the comment on this article but I didn't find it. I will now go to Blaque's blog and see if I can find it there. I swear you did say it. I will find it.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:00

You guys have my Vote ... Now all you have to do is move to my neighborhood and get on the ballot! I will seriously spoil my Vote X-ing next to all my blogger-buddies With a middle finger sign next to ZZ (Zuma and Zille)

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:02

and what is blacque's blog Mr Kisto!? I've been here all day .. unmoving ... Politics ... izakwenza une yiZombie!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:06

@ realist the DA does not rule anything or anyone ... nor does the ANC ... Back to semantics question at the beginning of the blog .... These people either Govern or they Administer government .... the instant we accept that the DA or ANC are the ruling parties in any part of our lives ... we effectively disenfranchise ourselves, and then turn around and bitch about it when they do as we pronounce them to be .... bo-Makisto and other Journos ... please adjust the language you use because its use is insipid, and it does crawl into people's realities and manifests itself. Alter the language and its use and you begin to alter people's thinking ... whichever way, good or bad .... to next entry ... for GML ...

myname
12 Apr 2011 16:11

Mavusana the trophy goes to u sweetheart. I didnt know u were lyk this but im thankful for knowing this side of urs.

Your replies r hilarious and so true. You made me lol a lot. 

Ladies i wont mention ur names but i respect u. 

Gudbye beautiful ppl & enjoy ur evening.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:11

... for instance.... I refuse to refer to my children as Kids ... they are Children, and they will take affront to anyone referring to them as Kids ... Police Officers are not Cops, and we are governed, not ruled, I am a Citizen of South Africa (Proudly Proudly so), I am definitely not a Civilian ... and dress down any para-anything attempting to address me out of being a citizen ... If I was passive about this, I would definitely acquiesce and the result would be my fault. No different than in education ... We reward mediocrity as acceptable and then wonder why 67% of our matriculants turn out functionally illiterate on entering Universities ... these people cannot even write a proper sentence thanks to e-shorthand... fix the language, and the brain works different,

makisto
12 Apr 2011 16:13

and what is blacque's blog Mr Kisto!?
It's like saying Makisto's blog which is frankly speaking but Blaque's blog is Blaque's Korner

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 16:13

True that Vusi..you on fire today!!!....
These people either Govern or they Administer government .... the instant we accept that the DA or ANC are the ruling parties in any part of our lives ... we effectively disenfranchise ourselves, and then turn around and bitch about it when they do as we pronounce them to be ...... please adjust the language you use because its use is insipid, and it does crawl into people's realities and manifests itself....the problem is biggger. Major education regarding voting/elections is required down under there.....

You know what fratsrates me about this forums...its that this is were the bright, nation building ideas are...and sadly di fella mo. :(

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 16:15

Bye myname honnnneeey!!!!!!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:20

@Makisto ... I understand ... @Green.Arrow ... I am not a wind-bag ... I live as you read ... I may let my boot be searched when I leave the township, but I will let the chief of Police that I want to see roadblock in Sandhurst when I get home also ... impractical ... but really true. It does not end with just venting here (at least in my case), I am not liked and I come across as a Jerk because i have strong opinions to people ... the only reason people may be Eish!!! ... may be because some things I say ... are reflective of themselves, or of how some people feel ... I only write what I feel, however, I will never betray myself in what i write! There is no-one to impress!

makisto
12 Apr 2011 16:20

You know what fratsrates me about this forums...its that this is were the bright, nation building ideas are...and sadly di fella mo. :(
I agree with you there

bo-Makisto and other Journos ... please adjust the language you use because its use is insipid, and it does crawl into people's realities and manifests itself. Alter the language and its use and you begin to alter people's thinking ... 
Very valid and true. I like the way to construct your words and how careful you are with your choice of words. I have learnt something today and will definietly use this wisdom in my future writings

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 16:21

Ciao Guys! It was Good!

monchooza
12 Apr 2011 16:34

@Poshspice standing in the Q is very nice...phela ekaslam ziyakhipha so its fun at the Q, jokes, booze, pictures, music..ziyawa. mara as for voting hayisuka i dont care anymore

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 20:49

Thats the spirit Vusik, il admit, im stil working on being as firm in person as ive grown to be in words in the past 3 yrs. #work in progress

Green.arrow
12 Apr 2011 20:55

As ive grown to be in 'written words' that is....

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 21:30

lol ... You are so crazy Green.Arrow .... maybe not as crazy as me ... but crazy nonetheless. I like your restrained / repressed madness. Somewhere inside you is a psychotic like me just waiting to snap and break out!

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 23:54

There is No Spoon ... Try next line ... Not rambling nor going mad ... trying to format in the box ... that way, I do not ramble ... `only the result will tell.

VusiK
12 Apr 2011 23:56

Try `again and again

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 02:24

The Sorted out the paragraphing thing.
Now I can write like you, with spacing and paragraphing ..Bolding including Italics!.

realist
13 Apr 2011 06:35

Vusik, Kids/children whats the difference? They will remain kids/children forever because they are your kids/children.

These people either Govern or they Administer government .... the instant we accept that the DA or ANC are the ruling parties in any part of our lives ... we effectively disenfranchise ourselves, and then turn around and bitch about it when they do as we pronounce them to be ......
Amen to that and nodding.

Realist, I have been trying to check out the comment on this article but I didn't find it. I will now go to Blaque's blog and see if I can find it there. I swear you did say it.
Makisto, don’t stress about it. Maybe you quoted me out of context since it seems to be the norm these days.

realist
13 Apr 2011 06:48

Btw Makisto, good article.

makisto
13 Apr 2011 08:36

Makisto, don’t stress about it. Maybe you quoted me out of context since it seems to be the norm these days.
lol @ out of context Realist also lol at the norm out of these days.

Btw Makisto, good article.
Thanks man

Somewhere inside you is a psychotic like me just waiting to snap and break out!
It's like you are reffering to me, if I am pushed over the edge, I say things that are stronger than many words I have written and I would immediately cut whoever into shreds and put them at their place. But I am a very nice person. I just don't want to pushed. I haven't been following where this came from, hope I didn't comment on this out of context and I am serious hey.

Green.arrow
13 Apr 2011 08:53

I like your restrained / repressed madness.....Huaaaakkakakkakk LMLO..LOL...hate that i agree with this observation.... And i dont know whether its a good or bad thing but offlate i burst a little..i have some allergic reaction to BS*.....i snap a little. Guess its only a mattter of time till "the psychotic in me snaps and breaks out"...but honestly i like the restraint man, its a good thing, God forbid i loose it, Vusi please do not encourage that.

Somewhere inside you is a psychotic like me just waiting to snap and break out!
It's like you are reffering to me, if I am pushed over the edge, I say things that are stronger than many words I have written and I would immediately cut whoever into shreds and put them at their place. But I am a very nice person. I just don't want to pushed. I haven't been following where this came from, hope I didn't comment on this out of context and I am serious hey....makisto, you know when it comes to this ke go tseba gabotse,....o nkgopotsa my sister who yesterday snapped at some big guys at work who was giving them grief coz they are new...lol. When i told her about myracial episode all she said was " i hope you ddint let them get waway with it"....

makisto
13 Apr 2011 08:58

.makisto, you know when it comes to this ke go tseba gabotse
Eish GA, that's true.

o nkgopotsa my sister who yesterday snapped at some big guys at work who was giving them grief coz they are new...lol. 
She did them good.

all she said was " i hope you ddint let them get waway with it"....
And she would have told them where to get off you know.

GML
13 Apr 2011 09:01

That would be even worse, we had the likes of the late but arrogant Mantombazana Tshabalala-Msimang (Inkosi ibe naye shame), the hipoppotamus Naledi Pandor and we do not need another ones.

There are women such as Nkosazana Zuma who are not bad.

Lets not talk about looks One and Only


GML, my problem with a woman president is the telephone bill. Take a look at the telephone bill where the woman is in charge of a department, you will be amazed.

Eish Realist. Lets not talk about habits of men or women. I'm of a slightly different opinion

GML
13 Apr 2011 09:05

GA- I'm patiently waiting for the outburst. Hoping it happens on TVSA. lmao. Funny that you agree with that observation.

Green.arrow
13 Apr 2011 09:12

LOL GML..you know You, My sista and Madea are my heros...lol.
I think it (the outburst)nearly happened here on tvsa...twice..and you see i remember because its something im concious NOT to do so when it slipped i felt it and felt bad:(.....but ill say for that little minute when it was happening, something inside was being soothednyana...???....hmmm....

makisto
13 Apr 2011 12:00

But Cheesa, Zille says compare what she has done in Cape Town with "ANC's incompetence over the past 17 years" lol, *just saying*

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 12:16


There are women such as Nkosazana Zuma who are not bad.
Well I could say something about her, but that would be personal ... She is not Presidential Material... unfortunately.

GA- I'm patiently waiting for the outburst. Hoping it happens on TVSA. lmao. Funny that you agree with that observation.
Bring it On!

BTW thanks VusiK. You know there's something in me that says I should put my X next to ANC since its my first vote, you know what I mean. With all what they did in the past for us etc etc etc tltltlt. So that I can also say I have voted for ANC not that I am going to vote for them or not. I mean imagine voting for another party with your first vote, tjo dunno how I feel about. But I know I have to think about what is happenig present and the future. E
To me, Voting is not sentimental, it is fundamental, so I do so with m conscience.

Vusi please do not encourage that.
Lol, I do because I believe one can control it ... Emotions are what mess arguments up, not logic, I am absolutely insane, however, I do not allow emotion to govern my argument.

Vusik, Kids/children whats the difference? They will remain kids/children forever because they are your kids/children.
Honesty, it is semantic, however, i was never a kid, the goat we are going to at the next slaughter at the family function was however, once a Kid! Stop b a farm and look at kids going about their business and one might possibility also stop referring to children as Kids, lol

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 12:19


Vusik, Kids/children whats the difference? They will remain kids/children forever because they are your kids/children.

Kids are Bab goats, Baby humans are children or babies!

Green.arrow
13 Apr 2011 12:39

Lol, I do because I believe one can control it ... Emotions are what mess arguments up, not logic, I am absolutely insane, however, I do not allow emotion to govern my argument. absolutely true here Vusi...thats what i apperciate about debates here, most people are able to keep it together even as they express their opinions strongly. Thats what i need to learn because i think i get too emotional when i burst...like cry cry and loose composure emotional and thats ..... not ayoba.lol. Hence i prefer to reight it all in.
But im working on it,.... that art of balancing the emotions etc etc

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 12:44

Deep breaths, Pregnant pauses, never speaking an incomplete thought, and intense application of logic.

I train the children to engage one another in debate about anything at dinner .... no subject is taboo, however, no emotions are alowed in the pot, not bad language, and applied logic ... no incomplete thoughts ...

The result is I raised children who are now in their 20s who speak nothing but sense, have a structured approach to what they wish to communicate, and cannot be taken advantage of easily.

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 12:50

Deep breaths, Pregnant pauses, never speaking an incomplete thought, and intense application of logic.

I train the children to engage one another in debate about anything at dinner .... no subject is taboo, however, no emotions are alowed in the pot, not bad language, and applied logic ... no incomplete thoughts ...

The result is I raised children who are now in their 20s who speak nothing but sense, have a structured approach to what they wish to communicate, and cannot be taken advantage of easily.

Green.arrow
13 Apr 2011 13:10

Noting VusiK...noting.

GML
13 Apr 2011 13:53

I train the children to engage one another in debate about anything at dinner .... no subject is taboo, however, no emotions are alowed in the pot, not bad language, and applied logic ... no incomplete thoughts ...


Vusi- I like this. I was also thinking that I want to raise my son to be an open minded individual who thinks things through without allowing his emotions to get the better of him. Though I'm still learning this myself. I tend to be so impatient with people who fail to use common sense or those who are lazy to think. I think I will also start encouraging debate just like my dad did with us. I can only hope he will be as receptive of it as I was

GA- joining on taking notes.......

Sobza
13 Apr 2011 14:15

IS THERE REALLY A POLITICAL PARTY WORTH VOTING FOR???"

I don't think so, I thought COPE would come up with something different, but their leaders have shown us their true colours....greedy old men who are hungry for power. I will certainly not be voting for the ANC. I don't know whom I will be voting for but I will vote make no mistake.

Sobza
13 Apr 2011 14:15

IS THERE REALLY A POLITICAL PARTY WORTH VOTING FOR???"

I don't think so, I thought COPE would come up with something different, but their leaders have shown us their true colours....greedy old men who are hungry for power. I will certainly not be voting for the ANC. I don't know whom I will be voting for but I will vote make no mistake.

VusiK
13 Apr 2011 14:40

IS THERE REALLY A POLITICAL PARTY WORTH VOTING FOR???"

That Dear Sobza .... IS FOR YOU TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF

Green.arrow
13 Apr 2011 16:19

LOL @ I will vote make no mistake...@Sobza..look into the independant candidates....

makisto
23 Aug 2011 12:16

And the strike is on again, what did I say?


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