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3rd Degree Recap: Polygamy

Written by makisto from the blog Frankly Speaking on 03 Mar 2010
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Turning up the heat in the presidential pants
Debora Patta
In last night’s episode of 3rd, Debora Patta turned up the heat by inspecting the African tradition and culture that apparently has been practiced over centuries. The major question of the show was: Isn’t it time African people do away with polygamy because it does no good to anyone, let alone the economy. 

Mshini wakhe
President Jacob Zuma is happy to marry again at the tax payer's expense
The show started with a history of President Jacob Zuma’s wives tree and his alleged rape of a daughter’s friend. We also saw him taking oath that he shall serve the country, uphold its constitution and serve the needs of the people. Then came inserts of his traditional wedding to Thobeka Madiba in January which was the pinnacle of the show. Another highlight of Mr President’s sexual escapades was his unprotected sex with Sonono Khoza, who is the daughter of his friend and chairman of the LOC of the 2010 Fifa World Cup, who is none other than Irvin Khoza. 
Awards

Conclusions that could be drawn here was that President Zuma enjoys having unprotected sexual encounters with his friends’ daughters. It also further demonstrates, as per opposition parties, that President Zuma has no respect for HIV policies which emphasise the need to practice safe sex and being faithful to your partner. It can be argued that President Zuma has got no respect for women because if he does, he would be a great role model to any one who cares to look up to him for inspiration. His sexual life has received more media coverage than service delivery of his government. 

Umshini wa JZ
With over 20 kids and counting, President Zuma’s wives are entitled to luxury houses, medical aid, clothes, food, business class air travel and many more. Meanwhile, you and I are footing the bill.
An insert of a Durbanite polygamist who’s married to two women and has managed to build two houses for them was also flighted. The first wife admitted to initially having a problem and hurt when she learnt from a neighbour that her sweetheart was taking s second wife. 
jz
With pastoral counsel, she came to terms with her man’s decision and learnt to live with it. She now says she’s happy that she knows if her husband isn’t with her, he’s with the other woman. The other woman had no problem being a second wife because she knew about it.
Gender and cultural analyst Nomboniso Gasa was the expert guest and took on a polygamist in studio with Debora Patta asking probing questions. The polygamist said he wouldn’t encourage anyone to practice polygamy because it comes with stress and financial implications. He claimed that he was trapped to be a polygamist because he comes from a family of the same reputation. He said he neither condones nor condemns polygamy but said people should refrain from practicing it. 
Nomboniso Gasa
Ms Gasa pointed out that polygamy was basically legalized to accommodate women who were already married before South Africa could become a democratic country since the apartheid government excluded them in the constitution. She stated that, the amendment (1998) wasn’t made to entrench polygamy but to protect women who were already in polygamous marriages. 
Nicer side of She-elephant
Debora and Gasa asserted that it’s high time our society do away with polygamy because, culture and tradition evolve over time and some practices are done away with.
President Zuma was also shown ridiculed in a World Economic Forum about his polygamous and irresponsible sexual behaviour. He was also interviewed on a CNN news channel about it and was very quick to say it’s his culture and no one’s culture should be condemned. 
Deborah Patta
If South Africans remember correctly, culture emphasizes the need for marriage before sexual encounters’ and in the very same African culture, is an abomination to allegedly rape or have sex with your friend’s daughter since she’s also your own daughter. 

Madiba is the hero, what about JZ
In closing, Deborah Patta said: “We feel this is a practice that’s outdated and essentially degrades women”.
That’s all I have time for, do join me again next week for more investigative and thought-provoking journalism. I’m Makisto, TVSA news, Gauteng.




116 Comments

GML
03 Mar 2010 10:21

Nice recap Makisto.

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 10:30

Well... well.. well.... understandably so yes things change but if we need to revisit our cultures, practices and traditions, shouldnt that be the discussion that happens among us the people who knows and practising those so called cultures?

I have a problem when someone from another culture (which will never change cause everyone needs to adopt it) comes and say its time to do away with this outdated sexist practice?? those are really strong words that I dont think are appropriate if you really respect the constitution which recognises the same outdates cultures.

The same people have a problem with ukusoka, fair enough we dont condone any deaths that happen there but this practice is more than just snipping of the foreskin, there is more to it than that, and then there was umkhosi womhlanga, then there was umkhosi wokweshwama.... now isithembu is in question!

Kanti thina as abantu abamnyama what are we supposed to have that will define us as proud Zulu's, Xhosa's, Venda's etc? Right now I wonder what will make me proud to be a Zulu if I have nothing that defines me??

yes the world evolves but that doesnt mean we need to now ditch things that we believe in because some people who have got nothing to do with them fing them outdated and sexist?

now as far as I know no one is forced into isithembu every woman has got the right to say it aint going to work for me so I cut my losses and the man goes ahead with what he loves most.. Nkosazana Dhlamimi Zuma did it and she is doing just fine with her kids?? 

People must think about these things before we decide to "do away with these outdated and sexist practices"

calamity
03 Mar 2010 10:31

Lol Makisto

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 10:52

Well put Tizoz, that's very true ....

If girls are encouraged to keep their virginity until they get married through umhlanga, we are told IT ISDEGRADING a woman, which by the way also help in teenage pregnancies and the early engagement to sex activivies

cleve
03 Mar 2010 10:57

kwa kwa kwa kwa Makisto

Tholi
03 Mar 2010 10:58

I have a problem when someone from another culture (which will never change cause everyone needs to adopt it) comes and say its time to do away with this outdated sexist practice?? those are really strong words that I dont think are appropriate if you really respect the constitution which recognises the same outdates cultures.>>>>

@tizoz
U and Me Both!

maddie
03 Mar 2010 11:05

there r good things about our culture and I think we should uphold those and improve these practices but there r certain things guys that r downright wrong.

listening to that first wife in KZN about how she found out from a neighbour/friend  that her very own husband was taking another wife the same day was so disheartening, the husband was suppose to ask for her approval as per culture but he did not.

they interviewed everyone involved in these polygamous setups but the children could not even comment which to me showed that they probably r not happy with the arrangement, again suffer the little children

Pajero
03 Mar 2010 11:40

"Debora and Gasa asserted that it’s high time our society do away with polygamy because, culture and tradition evolve over time and some practices are done away with". 
Well I don't agree with that.  Who have a right to tell other cultures what to do and what not to do. 


"If South Africans remember correctly, culture emphasizes the need for marriage before sexual encounters’ and in the very same African culture, is an abomination to allegedly rape or have sex with your friend’s daughter since she’s also your own daughter".
I agree with the above statement and I think we should also comment on it as well

realist
03 Mar 2010 11:43

If girls are encouraged to keep their virginity until they get married through umhlanga,
Not every girl or woman will eventually get married. Should they remain virgin?

Another highlight of Mr President’s sexual escapades was his unprotected sex with Sonono Khoza,
I don’t see anything wrong with that, do you? That is the choice they have made to go that route.

She stated that, the amendment (1998) wasn’t made to entrench polygamy but to protect women who were already in polygamous marriages.
Thereafter what happens with polygamy? I don’t understand this statement. 

In closing, Deborah Patta said: “We feel this is a practice that’s outdated and essentially degrades women”.
Hold a referendum and ask black women only to vote on this issue. Better still lets see how many women here on TVSA are prepared to be second best.

GoldenSta
03 Mar 2010 11:46

This show was quite boring and nje they wasted a lot of time showing the same things we've heard before about Zuma including the same tree we've seen on the news.

I do agree that in a lot of cases polygamy is an excuse for cheating. These people don't tell you upfront that they'll take a second wife.  

makisto
03 Mar 2010 11:52

@ Pajero. At least this article is unearthing silent blogers. In essence, what Patta was aying is that the President is cleverly manipulating the constitution for his sexual benefit. Besides, Personally I am beserk that we have to pay for all his wives' expenses while there are people who have no houses, can't afford to go to school oz they have no money. ANC's election mandate isn't delivered, there are more service delivery protests than ever before.
@ tizoz
Do we really have to be defined by a culture of practicing unprotected sex and allegedly raping our friends' daughters? Do we have to be defined by a culture of having over 20 children? Do we have to be defined by a culture of manipulating tax payer's money?

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 11:56

Guys, it will help for all of us to first understand what Polygammy culture is, how it began and why ... Before we take everything that Zuma does as culture

makisto
03 Mar 2010 11:57

@ realist
Another highlight of Mr President’s sexual escapades was his unprotected sex with Sonono Khoza,
I don’t see anything wrong with that, do you? That is the choice they have made to go that route.
I do see everything wrong in that he somewhat cheated on his wives= I don't think his wives knew he was going to have sex with her or dating her. A prez shoold know better hence my reference to HIV policies and as the Prez claims to be cultural, why isn't he upholding the norm that marry before you have sex with her?
All in all, JZ is practicing double standards.

realist
03 Mar 2010 12:02

I do see everything wrong in that he somewhat cheated on his wives= I don't think his wives knew he was going to have sex with her or dating her.
His wives except Makhumalo they should not see anything wrong with what Zuma did. They knew what they were getting themselves into. Read what Golden Sta wrote and you will understand.

makisto
03 Mar 2010 12:06

@ realist
I did. The man is a President for crying out loud. What leadership traits is he instilling in other future leaders? YOu haven't answered my 100 questions!

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 12:07

Do we really have to be defined by a culture of practicing unprotected sex and allegedly raping our friends' daughters? Do we have to be defined by a culture of having over 20 children? Do we have to be defined by a culture of manipulating tax payer's money?

who said, this is culture Makisto?

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 12:10

@ tizoz
Do we really have to be defined by a culture of practicing unprotected sex and allegedly raping our friends' daughters? Do we have to be defined by a culture of having over 20 children? Do we have to be defined by a culture of manipulating tax payer's money?

Makisto dont get me wrong, I am not in any way condoning wrong doing which is a choice if individuals. If Pres Zuma decides to cheat that is not because of his culture it is his individual choice, so is the case with Mr Clinton he didnt cheat because of his culture he cheated because he made that choice as an individual.

Now what I am against is attacking the culture not the did or individuals, are we trying to say that the only person who cheat are Zulu man in polygamous relationships? No that is not the case. if the were any issues with regards to changes to the Zulu culture or Vhenda culture for that matter I believe that should be the dialogue that happens among those people not to have an outsider say stop because this is outdated? outdated according to who's rules or standards?

We keep saying that women are forced into this if they dont want to share their husbands they must leave them, nothing says that a person must stay married if they are unhappy... walk away!

Now as far as I know Muslims do practice polygamy why are we not addressing that? 

I will say this again Polygamy has got NOTHING to do with cheating, people who are in monogamous relationships cheat everyday and they sleep around without protection, now that is what should be tackle and stop attacking "outdated cultures"

makisto
03 Mar 2010 12:10

@ BA
JZ always cites it as his culture and  tizoz claims we need this culture to define us.

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 12:12

not evey man who practices polygammy is bad as much as not every man who practices monogamy is good.

realist
03 Mar 2010 12:14

The man is a President for crying out loud.
He is also human.

What leadership traits is he instilling in other future leaders?
Do you honestly believe that he is a leader? He is a compromised leader and not a leader.

YOu haven't answered my 100 questions!
Which ones and I honestly do my best to answer them? Right now I am going to the Gym and I will be back in an hour’s time.

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 12:16

all I will say is:

Any culture that doesnt evolve with time and the progression of it's people risks being irrelevant.

makisto
03 Mar 2010 12:16

But do we have to sit and tolerate JZ's sexual misbehaviour. He said we need to talk about morals and Patta was simply heeding to his call. In an intellectual state, people should be free to challenge systems without fear of being labeled outsiders. I think it is wrong to say Patta is an outsider. She is being an intellect and is only challenging what many would agree is wrong and definitely need to be rooted out.

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 12:19

Reply from: makisto 3/3/2010 6:10:58 PM


@ BA
JZ always cites it as his culture and tizoz claims we need this culture to define us. 

Makisto, Polygammy is his culture that is true and when he says that he is defending his marriage and his family? I dont see anything wrong with that.

when he "raped" he aknowledged and apologised (yes its not ideal) but he never said "raping" or cheating is his culture.

When he paid inhlawulo for his child with Sonono he was within his right to say doing so is part of the Zulu culture which is true. none of his culture statements were condoning his cheating they were explaining his actions. 

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 12:19

JZ always cites it as his culture 

@makisto .... this is the same reason i encourage you to learn about the origins of the culture so that you wont go believeing everything you hear..... If you remember very well how it came about when JZ said 'IT IS MY CULTURE', it was when he was asked about why he has "Many wives", way before he was the president and you started footing the bill for him and his family .... They asked him about his wives not his sex life .....

If you also remember very well, when JZ made his third apology re Sonono, he never said i went and slept with Sonono because it is my culture..... it is the public that now concludes that he did that because it is his culture which by the way it is not culture to have sex or be unfaithfull or whatever you call what JZ did .... 

sponono
03 Mar 2010 12:28

tizoz you summed it up nicely...I'm starting to DISLIKE debra a lot and I dont even like Zuma and I dont condone his actions, but I see this as an attack to black culture....nobody ever challenged western ways of doing things, because we've been deemed barabric long long ago...yet if you go back and look at our culture there are a number of beautiful and respectfull customs and practices in all tribes not just Zulu's taht are being ignored ....she can go jump in the lake...I'm not prepared to have some kind of "academic"  ro "political" discussion about MY culture with Debra...nx!

just because Zuma uses the world cultur to defend his actions doenst give anyone especially from outside the zulu ulture the rite to then analyse and decide that zulu culture should be abolished  -imagine if I told afrikanners to stop wearing their khakhis becasue that culture is blah blah....Zuma DOES NOT represent all things ZULU...OK

makisto
03 Mar 2010 12:28

Thank you blaqueboi, I wanted to say that but didn't know how to say it. Well said.

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 12:34

Reply from: blaqueboi 3/3/2010 6:16:29 PM


all I will say is:

Any culture that doesnt evolve with time and the progression of it's people risks being irrelevant.
 

at the same time it not the duty of an outsider to tell you to dump your beliefs, opening a dialogue, yes that is welcome but asking people to drop what they believe in because you do not agree with it is just not on.

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 12:39

Any culture that doesnt evolve with time and the progression of it's people risks being irrelevant

Another thing about Debra's investigative journalism re polygamy is, it is plain negative, so she wanted to only get the negative effects of it and show them on TV, or atleast what was shown ......

Green.arrow
03 Mar 2010 12:44

I'm starting to DISLIKE debra a lot and I dont even like Zuma and I dont condone his actions, but I see this as an attack to black culture...that is the sense i got after watching the show last night

...yet if you go back and look at our culture there are a number of beautiful and respectfull customs and practices in all tribes not just Zulu's taht are being ignored.. ..very true, reading chapter 8 ya I write what i like (some african cultural concepts) made me appreciate the beauty of our africn cultures..not only the practices but the attitudes as well. I will be damned if i should fall for the lifelong propaganda that is (directly or indirectly) robbing us of our african identities and implying that anything that is not western is substandard. God knows so many things are wrong with society today primarily because of western practices and culture shock.

Dini
03 Mar 2010 12:46

Good article MAkisto Zuma does not have respect for woman at all and he is hiding behind culture.
There is no culture that says have sex and marry culturuly we should marry and have sex after.
Zuma is a danger to all his wives especially MaKhumalo shame that is if they are still doing it.
With the rape charges HE SAID IF HIS CULTURE HE COULDN'T LEAVE A WOMAN IN THAT SITUATION.
Damn there is no culture that talks about baby oil and shower

Dini
03 Mar 2010 12:50

If Khanyi Mbau can have 2 husbands people will start talking about the expiry date of what what

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 12:54

I'm gonna bite the bullet and be the lone ranger here. I didnt hear Debra at any point saying people should disregard polygamy or any cultural practice. Debra is a host of an invetigative journalism show. Her job is to ask the question that the public might be asking. She is just a messer. The gist of the show was whether this practices have a place in our society in this modern era or not.

Where then do you guys get that she is telling us what  to do with our culture? When 3rd degree does shows about white racist you guys never make such a hoooha about it so why then is she the devil when she does shows about sensitive black issues.

3rd Degree was posing a question and investigating it's merit. The episode was not a PSA ( Public Service Announcement) for black people to abondon their culture. Critisice guys but be objective in your critisism.

sponono
03 Mar 2010 12:54

blaquebooi..yes .culture evolves NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE ALTER CONSTITUTIONS and DECIDE ...it just happens  and if it does change well fine but as long as people wanna do things that DONT abuse other peoples riights and those who belive in that culture participate in such practices then let them be...if my five wives are happy to be in teh polygamous marriage who are you to tell tehm tehy are being oppressed/abused wara wara wara....the so called "enlightened and learned" women would NOT enter into it and that should be their choice

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 12:55

messenger*

Toodecent
03 Mar 2010 12:59

I better not get engaged on this because ke khinya ke masepa a some people say, le ge bare we people of different views I mean even a child knows what that horny old zulu keeps on doing is wrong.

sponono
03 Mar 2010 13:06



Blaque...re her  PSA  approach to teh topic....I think debra (whom i assume produces and decides on the show and tpics) did JUST that  read this paragraph

 The major question of the show was:  Isn’t it time African people do away with polygamy because it does no good to anyone, let alone the economy.

, now that to me sounds like a question that comes from HER....opinion....and Debra is not exaclty known for an objective take on her topics...IMO..in this kind of question we supposed to say  oh YES Debra you rite...well I say F*ck off Debooorah..

graned Zuma is not a good example of a true African Zulu man of his house who is respected and has a good husband and father and a good charecter and when he menitons culture you then start questioning where he's coming from....but to say DO AWAY becoz of Zuma!!!!!!!>*^%^$^&

truth is some or most white peole are happy to see black folks abandoning everything that still says African using English 90% of times, wearing Weaves, not eating phutu, ect...its the best way of taking away our identity...(not saying poligamy is our indetity but...get the poitn...nx!

Spororo
03 Mar 2010 13:06

debra u can go nd jump in the sea. I'm a proud xhosa gal and i won't change just becoz a white gal says so. U have your own culture but who changes it. No one. To all those who has a problem with our traditions and culture goes and swim in the sea.
WE WONT CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Respect our rights and leave us alone

makisto
03 Mar 2010 13:26

I'm loving this

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 13:37

for all purposes my responses are not directed at the host of the show I am merely debating some of the issues that bothers me with this topic and the fact that wrong exampleas are used. 

If the show was about Pres Zuma and his unbecoming cheating ways then I would gladly understand but I take offence to the reference of the culture deemed outdated and sexist. I will say this again, women who are in this arrangement stay because they feel they can handle it, failing that there is always separation. fair enough it is not nice but if your husband tells you they have interest somewhere else at least they are being honest unlike some of us who are holier than thou right now and they cheat like there is no tomorrow. 

I can bet you, you can find one or two people on this blog tha got laid last night and it wasnt their regular partner.... and even worse there was no protection cause "...it just happened" let us not use peoples weaknesses to attack other peoples cultures that's all I am saying!

Tholi
03 Mar 2010 13:37

I'm starting to DISLIKE debra a lot and I dont even like Zuma and I dont condone his actions, but I see this as an attack to black culture>>
Phela she was married to a Zulu Prince (Mweli Mzizi) and it didn't work. now she seems to hate everything that has to do with Zulus or Blacks.

Off Topic. tltltltltltl!
Malema hires stadium for birthday

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 13:40

I am yet to hear Europeans adopting african cultures...... 

chances are very slim cause our cultures are outdated and barbaric anyway....

Mndeni
03 Mar 2010 13:43

Off Topic. tltltltltltl!
Malema hires stadium for birthday

what's wrong with that Tholi....tltltltltltltlt......

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 13:51

My English Literature teacher once told us a story about how her mother used to cut off the ends of the pie when she baked it. After noticing that her grandmother did the same thing she asked her why do they do that. Her mother said she was doing it because that how they've always done it in the family. Curious about this strange practice she chose ask her gran since her mom must have learnt this from her, the gran told her that her mother (who is my teacher's great mother) taught her mother used to do that too. Still puzzled my teacher asked her gran why and her gran apparebtly chuckled and told her that her mother did it because they had a small square pan. So something that was done done to be practical became a family tradition.

The gist of this goes back to what i said earlier that culture and tradition need to evolve or it will become irrelevant. Most cultural practices were established for practical reason which don't have any significance now. What we deem as sacred and definitive of our cultures might have culminated from an insignificant practical reason or maybe even a joke.

realist
03 Mar 2010 13:56

The gist of the show was whether this practices have a place in our society in this modern era or not.
No one so far has answered this question. My answer is definitely no.

When 3rd degree does shows about white racist you guys never make such a hoooha about it so why then is she the devil when she does shows about sensitive black issues.
Well said.

3rd Degree was posing a question and investigating it's merit.
The problem with the show is that it was not balanced and it only portrays the president in a bad light. The show was supposed to be about polygamy and not about Zuma. Please don’t come with the notion that he is the president. First he is a human being then president.

Critisice guys but be objective in your critisism.
With Debra you can never be objective.

Tholi
03 Mar 2010 13:57

what's wrong with that Tholi....tltltltltltltlt......>>
Nothing wrong Mndeni, I'm just laughing at the media the way they give Malema so much attention. tltltltl!

realist
03 Mar 2010 14:03

I am yet to hear Europeans adopting african cultures...... 
Nothing good that they will gain from it and yet Africans on the hand have adopted some of the European cultures, therefore their cultures must be good. Not so?

baby e
03 Mar 2010 14:03

why are you all now supporting Zuma. is it because Patra a south african who happens not to be black raised this issue or what?
 
my concern with polygamy Zuma's to be precise:
- tax payers money is being wasted. taking care of 3 wives and 20 children is a lot. all this kids attend the most expensive schools and you will find they are all overseas and who foots the bill? tax payers.
- HIV policy how do you tell someone to be faithful to one party and condomise when everyone is aware that the presiee himself showers after sex with an HIV positive person. now i see where the beetroot issue is coming from. it all makes sense now.
- if all this was happening behind closed doors that Zuma has 20 kids and has other concubines and married to one woman. which we all know that it happens i will not have a problem with. 
  

Dini
03 Mar 2010 14:13

The show was about polygamy realist - They interviewed 3 people if I remember correctly
Toodecent  thank you

baby e
03 Mar 2010 14:17

@ Tholi - the media is not giving malema attention THEY ARE SHOWING US HOW HE IS LIVING ON HIS MERE SALARY and doesnt own directors which have so far won tenders with more that R140 + million. corruption. the media is exposing him

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 14:18

@baby e .... can you please point out atleast one person and a comment that supports Zuma in this article ...........

Cande
03 Mar 2010 14:19

*phew*, were do i begin?

Mathaz
03 Mar 2010 14:24

Polygamy is so outdated....this day and age of diseases and people not being able to stick to one patner.  Some of our african cultures are just there to demean women's rights and therefore the relevance of them should be analysed. 

sponono
03 Mar 2010 14:25

baby e..this is not a SUPPORT to Zuma, personally I'm just annoyed at Debras approach to the topic of poligamy and culture and  using the Zuma issue to ask that question of hers  and ultimately it comes across as if Zuma represents the zulu culture just because he has mentioned it...we AGREE that he's wrong..and as someone said even a child can see that..(donno what that implies.or maybe you not the only one who dont realise that we are not defending zumas actions...sigh!!!.)...and with regards to your questions, THOSE are directed to the Zuma issue..but polygamy in general mite not consist of that picture that you've potrayed in other families, and I dont necessarily agree with it..I just DONT think its Debras place as a white woman to say is it NOT TIME tO DO AWAY with it..Thats twists my balls  so bad.......is it not time to do away with mulsim's wearing face scarves, is it not time for indians to stop praying to gods, is it not time for Xhosa's to stop going to the mountains, is it not time for do away with Afrikaners wearing khakhis everywhere, is it not ime for Debra to *bleep!* of.....coz there's not much ya''ll would like changed from the West.....see all races and tribes have their own cultures whether we agree with them or not as long as they are not infringing our space/rites, whoa re we to even challenge their existnece....and yes Blaque some culture evolve, -ON THEIR OWN...

realist
03 Mar 2010 14:29

Polygamy is so outdated....
Finally someone with guts. …

Dini
03 Mar 2010 14:32

Sponono ypu sound like a Zuma Supporter but anyway the show was not directed to Zuma it was directed to polygamist and she used Zuma and that traditional healer as examples and again Debra did not critisise anybody she is just debating

Mndeni
03 Mar 2010 14:33

kwakwakwakwakwakwa @ sponono,Oh how much I love you my dear....

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 14:36

guys can we please fundisa ourselves to read and understand, if we dont understand ASK  ...tjo

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 14:38

Polygamy is so outdated....this day and age of diseases and people not being able to stick to one patner. Some of our african cultures are just there to demean women's rights and therefore the relevance of them should be analysed. 

I am sorry but I disagree with this statement, people who are in momogamous(spl) relationships cheat everyday and they also are the cause of the ever spreading HIV! lets not be one sided here! 

Yes cultures should be analysed and evolve that is so true but that should be the debate of the people practising those cultures not outsiders telling people what they are doing is outdated! that's my only gripe.

sponono
03 Mar 2010 14:43

RIF----Reading is fundamental..Dini..(and the gang)...lets go thru this one more time slowly....I AM NOT A ZUMA SUPPORTER.....and Comprehension is ALWAYS Necessary....capiche..!!!.......

(btw i also dont necessarily like polygamy...but each to his or her own..thats my point)

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 14:43

thank you BA, its saddening that when it comes culture, race, religion and politics people loose their sense of reasoning. Facts are blurred to sensationalise debates. Emotions cloud facts.

I've yet to get a clear understanding as to why this attacks on Debra based on this episode are justified.

1. Is it because she is white so she should not debate black issues?
2. Did the episode focus too much on Zuma and if it did who-else should they have profiled when talking about polygamy in SA if not the country's first citizen who is a polygamist
3. What is this article exactly about; Debra's journalistic intergrity, Polygamy or Zuma?

realist
03 Mar 2010 14:46

I am sorry but I disagree with this statement, people who are in momogamous(spl) relationships cheat everyday and they also are the cause of the ever spreading HIV! lets not be one sided here!
They maybe cheating but they are not legalizing the cheating like Zuma does. You are contradicting yourself here. Before you get a second, third, fourth etc you have to cheat first, then legalize it to be accepted. 

That is what Zuma is doing and defending it by saying it is my culture. Culture "se moer maan" he is cheating finish and klaar. Btw, not all of them cheat as your statement implies.

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 14:52

Before you get a second, third, fourth etc you have to cheat first, then legalize it to be accepted. 

@realist  ......... Cultural this is not true, that's why i said maybe just maybe if we can learn about the origins of the culture we can have a little bit of understanding and stop equating Zuma to Culture!

baby e
03 Mar 2010 14:55

@ Blaq thanks 

why is Debra being so attacked as asked above. 

thank you for your clarity Sponono that u are not a zuma supporter. i am just wondering why all this attack on Debra and the polgamy issue? is it because of her colour and culture?

Dini
03 Mar 2010 14:56

Amen realist CULTURE SE MOER indeed if I cheat with him I might endup being one of the first ladies whatch this space Sonono will soon be wife 5

Savanah Dry
03 Mar 2010 14:59

@ baby e  Is it because Patra a south african who happens not to be black raised this issue or what?

Problem with us is we do not want other people to point out something we would rather another darkie says it , I didnt watch it but from wht I am getting people just hate the fact Debra pointed it out .....
Debora and Gasa asserted that it’s high time our society do away with polygamy because, culture and tradition evolve over time and some practices are done away with".

Yes it is time , its just like some of us who have embraced christianity , and now we do not partake in any traditional ceremonies ..... I have friends who have argued that Christianity was brought by white people hence they will never believe in Jesus my guess its mere racism on their part

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 14:59

Realist please answer these two questions for me:

1. where and when did Zuma say cheating is his culture?
2. are any of my responses defending Pres Zuma or just Polygamy and culture in general?

Maybe I should have included "some" in my statement, yes I agree not everyone cheats and that is not what I was implying. but the point I was making is we shouldnt make it sound like Polygamy is the main source of cheating. 

GoldenSta
03 Mar 2010 14:59

Best-Achiever u keep saying we should "learn about the origins of the culture". If you do know please educate us. I don't know the origins but I do not support the practise and that was way before Debra said anything about it.  

realist
03 Mar 2010 15:02

@BA
Totally agree with what you are saying. I was merely surprised by tizoz post. 

Who in SA has a PhD in culture? Is Dr Motshega qualified to give a lecture about culture or what?

sponono
03 Mar 2010 15:04

to anser our question Ballque....LOL

1. YESSSSSS
2. YESSSSSS...its ok to mention him but there's also Mbongeni, The king, ect ect..my argument is NOT about ZUMA its the fact that she felt she has to suggest that part of our CULTURE "BE DONE AWAY WITH"
3. the writer has to answer this  lol......as for .journalistic intergrity...my left foot!!!!!!!

Dini...i give up on you

anywyas I rest my case

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 15:05

Reply from: realist 3/3/2010 9:02:33 PM


@BA
Totally agree with what you are saying. I was merely surprised by tizoz post


Wow! which post is this?

Dini
03 Mar 2010 15:06

tizoz Zuma said Polygamy is his culture but I say before you decide on taking the second wife you first cheat with her and then marriage after. 
I think Zuma is the biggest abuser on earth Mfundi should give him Dumisani's part on Generations

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 15:09

tizoz Zuma said Polygamy is his culture but I say before you decide on taking the second wife you first cheat with her and then marriage after.  

my question to you Dini, is Polygamy not part of the Zulu culture?

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 15:12

anyway, I am tired of repeating the same thing... am out!

realist
03 Mar 2010 15:12

1. where and when did Zuma say cheating is his culture?
I have never heard him say cheating is his culture. How did he manage to get wife no 2, 3, 4 act. With the exception of Makhumalo who I hold in high esteem did the second and the third wife authorizes that he sleep with Khoza’s daughter? I mean his defense about this cock-up was that his culture permits him to do this, even his son testified to this fact. 

2. are any of my responses defending Pres Zuma or just Polygamy and culture in general?
No, they are not. You are defending polygamy and culture. I have no problem when you defend culture but polygamy; no I have a problem because the man has to cheat first before he can legalize the damn polygamy. Even if the wife gives the nod he has to cheat first.

Dini
03 Mar 2010 15:12

Tizoz polygamy is anyone's culture but it was never done like this the older woman should choose a wife for her husband before he could even think of cheating.
It was discussed between the wife and the husband

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 15:13

I sense a bit of redundancy in all of this and with your comments starting to get vulgar I will take a bow and bit you all farewell...

When all fails shoot the messenger!! poor Ms Patta

Dini
03 Mar 2010 15:15

Poor Makhumalo with no child and no husband by his side.
The only time Zuma spend time with her is for public appearances

blaqueboi
03 Mar 2010 15:15

bid*

Best-Achiever
03 Mar 2010 15:16

What ???

culturally Polygamy is only allowed if the first wife gives her approval to it and there are legitimate reasons for the second marriage/third or infite(is there such) marriage.

Why????

like if the first wife is very ill or unable to bear children(this is what i'd like to believe happened with MaKhumalo, and Zuma took advantage of that and kept bringing women and children), or she can't look after herself or her family or she is too weak because of an illness. If the first wife doesnt approve it then the culture prohibits it, reason being, there should be peace in the household, ancestors shouldnt be bothered by noise and endless quarells...LOL

How????

if there is a problem with the first and/or second wife or whatever number, the two families meet to discuss the problem, then address it with both parties(wife and husband) and ask for the blessing from the wife to allow the husband to go look for the second wife(or the wife, herself choose the second wife for her husband), This was elders duty , and the reason why they did it was to increase their clan. they also did it even if the first wife doesnt get a boy child(as they are considered to increase the clan)

What i find wrong about it ..
They never took into consideration, before considering taking the second wife that the husband could be the reason .... until maybe all of the wives dont get children and in that case, they'll ask members of the family(ie brothers of the husband) to help impregnant the wives ........LOL .... Shame they were so obsessed with having children or having a large clan



What Zuma is doing is not culture or allowed polygamy, this is plain and simple cheating put together with forced polygamy which equals to abuse ..

Segololo
03 Mar 2010 15:18

lovely recap, Makisto... I watched the show and will refrain from commenting on the content and topic...  but something that disturbed me... Ngcobo's first wife house, there was this huge man sitting on the wall... jeeeze!! he covered the whole screen? did anyone notice him?

realist
03 Mar 2010 15:19

polygamy is anyone's culture but it was never done like this the older woman should choose a wife for her husband before he could even think of cheating.
It was discussed between the wife and the husband
That is what I thought. Could be wrong.

Dini
03 Mar 2010 15:20

Well Said Best-Achiever Zuma is the biggest abuser he is tired of older once and he is now busy with the 30something 
Zuma and Crous are the same

makisto
03 Mar 2010 15:40

I also feel that you guys hate Patta because she's exposing the truth and happens to be white. Somone asked the question about the article. Th earticle is about Zuma but I preferred to use Deborah all over the article simply because I like her approach. She didn't say polygamy is wrong as someone pointed out here that she didn't, she only said it's high time it's done away with coz it's degrading women. Why are you not hating Gasa as well who agreed with her and asked some probing questions and said not so fluttering things about polygamy.

Mathaz
03 Mar 2010 15:42

Back in the day a man's wealth was equated by the number of wives and children he has.  Nowadays we find men who don't want to see a skirt pass by use it as an excuse for their philandering ways.  How many men seek permission from their wives to marry another?  Mbongeni Ngema divorced his first wife because she refused to be played like that.  Most married men when they propose to their nyatsis they will even tell them that they are married it's either you accept it or they move on looking for someone to cheat with them. 

We must move with the times even if it means letting go of some of our traditions which are so primitive.

Dini
03 Mar 2010 15:45

Yvonne Chaka Chaka threatened to divorce her husband

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 15:45

Triple lol Sego are you still on that man!

maddie
03 Mar 2010 15:46

@BA
So the husband go and look for a second wife first and then the wife has to approve obviously based on the facts u mentioned. 

so if the wife disapproves there'll be no taking of a second wife.

has that ever happened though and if it has did the husband continued with it.

what i know is that in the past men always had the last word in relationships.

i think this is just one of those things that are written/taught but never get to be implemented accordingly, which is why i think this polygamy ish should be scraped 

poshspice
03 Mar 2010 15:47

No comment on polygamy, am just thinking that it means umshini ka Msholozi is still going very strong at 60 something, jealous down.... a question to men, isnt a challenge to maintain and satisfy more than 4 women at the same time?

Segololo
03 Mar 2010 15:50

tizoz... I am still traumatised at that man... tjo! I was curious how he was related to the Ngcobo's... LMAO!

tizoz
03 Mar 2010 15:56

its the way he was sitting Sego!

myname
03 Mar 2010 15:58

Less yada yada more ching ching &&&&&

Will read this 2morrow. Bye

Dini
03 Mar 2010 16:00

I can't stand those hands yada yada

Shy Girl
03 Mar 2010 16:00

Segololo
03 Mar 2010 16:13

No, Tizoz.. did you see him? aoa!

Best-Achiever
04 Mar 2010 07:48

So the husband go and look for a second wife first and then the wife has to approve obviously based on the facts u mentioned.

@maddie i suggest you go back to my post, read it,  then read it and read it ... understand it, if you dont ask me to repeat it for you, i'll glady do so and when you are sure you have read and understood everything, ask me them questions ......... please bear in mind that im only explaining what the culture says about this, how it originated and how... i dont either support it neither does my family.

nwaira
04 Mar 2010 09:50

I better not get engaged on this because ke khinya ke masepa a some people say, le ge bare we people of different views I mean even a child knows what that horny old zulu keeps on doing is wrong -Toodecent you're killing me here..

myname
04 Mar 2010 12:15

eish ngiyavilapha maan ....will read it later coz im sure it got valid points.

Where there are bloggers like realist, u should know that it is/was a burning topic.

T.O
04 Mar 2010 16:25

Why is everyone quiet about the Polygamy in muslym culture. Why is there nothing mentioned about the abuse and degrading of women in Irad, Saudi Arabia etc. Why is every thing that is black so stigmaitised. please man - leave black people alone. as long as the women are not forced to practise polygamy- the rest of other people can just keep quiet. 

Lushi
04 Mar 2010 17:48

Heita Mazntsi, hoe gan dit. It's tripple Dolly her!

T.O
05 Mar 2010 11:20

Hey Lushi. Tripple dolly is getting married.

I enjoyed her interview Julis Malema about the missing no plate on his car. I like the part when she says Usile Malema 4 times. lol.  I thought it was only Debra Patta who can take on Malema

USILE MALEMA USILE

maud
05 Mar 2010 11:52

hi everyone, as much as i did not wantto comment on this, i had to say something, Polygamy or calture , i dont care , i will never allow my husbant to take a second wife , unless he divorse me first,

big up to Patta, for tackling an issue that most people wanted to discuss but a fraid to. and i disagree with those people who wants to turn this to a racial issue.

i am married to a zulu man from the Royal family where Polygamy is normaly practise , to them this is selfishness specialy in our generation where  there is a Aids stigma hanging over our shoulders.

maud
05 Mar 2010 11:55

sorry ment to say husband , thats what happens if you are stealing someones PC.

hloni
05 Mar 2010 12:03

Debra' show was sickening and condescending. Even the prof on the show pointed out that most of the problems encountered with polygamy are also there in these modern monogamous marriages. 
It is an accepted norm that married men are attracted to younger woman, and the normal thing to do is to divorce ur current wife, leave her with the kids and go marry this new wife...and this can happen a multiple times. But it's considered backwards to want a new wife...but still be a part of ur current family. Worse still, we dont  say it's degrading to women for a 50 year-old to marry a 25 year old...who holds the power in these relationships..all we ask is that he must leave his current family to marry this new fling. I'm not for polygamy(which makes up less than 2% of marriages)...but monogamy is even worse to our society.

hloni
05 Mar 2010 12:16

@ maud

Debra never tackled any issue...if she wanted to, she would have invited knowledgable ppl about our culture and customs...instead she invited some young polygamist who couldnt put a sentence together...and pitted him against an intallectual lady...that's just being bias and trying to belittle the significance of our culture.

maud
05 Mar 2010 12:50

@hloni - she must have -  but tell me who will came forward on a national television and discuss the State President? i for sure will not.
and if i can tell you most people who practise Polygamy are not educated so it was not going to be easy for her to get an intelligent polygamist.
like i said i dont like to get deep into this discussion as it will only hurt some people, we are people from different caltures and race, we once had this discussions and the boardroom turned blue.


hloni
05 Mar 2010 13:30


@maud - but the president is being discussed in every forum..tv, radio, newspaper, even parlament....and the guest speaker was given an oppurtinity to have a go at the president about how it's such a shame that he was elected in the 1st place....which means 66% of the voting population are just stupid.

Also...the show was NOT about the prez...it was about polygamy...but was instead used for another attack at the prez...which is ok...but dont make it seem like it's a show on polygamy.

Damn...i was expecting u to at least know that educated does not mean intelligent...this is similar to ur comment about Polygamy means Aids. There's a greater risk of Aids with the sugar daddy phenomen...which is also more degrading to woman btw.

maud
05 Mar 2010 14:08

@ hloni, like i said i know this is going to be a personal attack but anyway its okay, educated and intelligence are two different things although to get through the other you need another one

for you to intelligent you need to be educated to understand things , by understanding things you automatically became intelligent.

i never said Polygamy means Aids , (i said if i may quote), in our generation we have a stigma of Aids on our shoulders. on which we need to reduce by sticking to one partner, by my understanding( i stand corrected) Polygamy meand marrying more than one partner.
if i am not mistaken the so called  66% stupid  population voted for ANC not the president.

i still say big up to Debra,





myname
05 Mar 2010 14:55

Finally i finished.........whowhu niyathetha nhe!!!

hloni
05 Mar 2010 15:27

@ maud. 
As i said...i'm not for polygamy...but i feel it's hypocritical to target this culture practiced by very few ppl and blaming it for spreading decay in our society...just because we hate Zuma.

According to stats...a 3rd of monogamous marriages dont make it to 10 years...and only 20% last over 30 years(and it's declining)...and 70% of divorces are becos of a cheating spouse. So much for single partner relationships. So i figure this kind of marriage is wrong because it goes against the natural fact that people will not be with just one other person for a lifetime...especially nowadays. Do u wanna know the stats on polygamous marriages.

Wether we like or not...polygamy is widely practiced in our nation...with 1 wife and many girlfriends. FACT.

Dini
05 Mar 2010 15:58

I love you Maud

for you to intelligent you need to be educated to understand things , by understanding things you automatically became intelligent

Da Diva
05 Mar 2010 16:03

66% stupid community voted for ANC nt a Pres.... What does that mean?? STUPID i'm offended since ngingasona isilima.

Dini
05 Mar 2010 16:06

DA DIVA You are insulting the 66%

Msoe
05 Mar 2010 18:03

ZULU CULTURE IN MY KNOWLEDGE:

1. The husband tells his first wive that he is in love with so and so....that happens even before that women knows that Mr so and so is intrested in her.

2.The first wife monitors the woman her husband is intrested in after she is satisfied that she can be a good wife to her husband she goes back to her husband and tell him " I am giving you the go ahead, intombi yakwaMkhize, Zondi or whatever ingaba ngunkosikazi wesibili"

3. The husband DOESNT go to 2nd women, THE WIFE DOES. She is the one who should go to the women and tell her that her husband is intrested in her and court her herself.

4. If there is agreement between the two than the husband can send 'uncles' ukuyocela isihlobo esihle (lobola nigotiations).

5. Than there is marriage afterwards.

In my understanding the husband should even speak to the woman let alone sleep with her. The first wife do all the work up until the 2nd women agrees to marry the husband. What Zuma is doing is not ZULU CULTURE but some disgusting misconduct that puts me in shame as a proud ZULU WOMAN. Yes taking more that 1 wife is culture but there are guidlines towards this that need to be respected. Why is it that Zumu/any other polygumist man want to change certain thing in the Culture so that it would suit them? If kukhona into eyodwa eshintshile ekwenzeni lokho abakubiza ngesiko than why not change the whole practise because vele sesikonile kwasekuqaleni?

ZUMA IS WRONG!!!!! Belittling our culture in the face of the world and making us feel ashamed of what we are. I would never marry into a polygumist and if in future I find myself in a situation where my husband wants to take a second wife than I would walk out with my head held high.

Msoe
05 Mar 2010 18:06

In my understanding the husband should even speak to the woman let alone sleep with her

I meant shouldnt

myname
12 Mar 2010 09:06

Thanks Msoe ive been waiting 4 this explaination. It's so clear my skat.....

in future I find myself in a situation where my husband wants to take a second wife than I would walk out with my head held high
Ja nhe!

polygamy
02 Jan 2018 10:56

i am in a polygamous relationship. In my culture, i had no choice. its HORRIBLE and should be banned completely. Its demeaning, it sucks the life out of you. i have no hope of escape.


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