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Is death a gateway into heaven?

Written by Cody from the blog Jehova-Nisi: TVSA Home Cell/Bible Study Group on 09 Sep 2009
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Is death a gateway into heaven?









Recently I attended a memorial whereby the people were so sad stricken from the loss of their loved ones that they were consoling themselves with the idea that the guys are now in heaven looking down on us with their heavenly Father. Although I could understand the need to console oneself but I had one question bothering me, is death a gateway to heaven? Does God let us to be all miserable on this earth whilst the dead look upon us feeling sorry for us on high ? Whilst I understand there are many religions and understanding of death I tried to look at it from a protestant stand point. A stand point that uses the bible, and the bible alone to answer this question. So I do understand my conclusions may be different to those who use tradition, science or rational thinking but I think for those who believe in the Word ,it might be insightful.

So before we even go into the idea of death being a gateway to heaven let us define these two concepts first ; “death” and “heaven” . Romans 6:23 says death is the wages of sin. Ezekieal 18;4,23 also reaffirms that concept. For God told Adam and Eve that if they partake of the fruit they will die, in otherwords if they did hlisten to God’s word they will die. But that explains how death came about ,but how does the bible describe death? In John 11 : 11 -14 Christ compares death to sleep. When Lazarus had passed away he tells everyone that Lazarus is but asleep, the guys thought he meant it figuratively that he was not dead but he meant it literally that Lazarus was dead = sleep. Why does death = sleep will touch on that later on.1 Thessalonians 4 : 15,16

Then what is heaven? Heaven is a place where God is, a place of perfection. Isiah describes Heaven as place where the blind will see, the lame shall walk ,were a man shall build and not another inhabit, were a man shall plant and not another reap. A place were the lions shall eat grass and walk side by side with the lamb.( Isiah 35 : 3-60, Isiah 65 :21 -23) .A place were Christ is busy preparing a place for us to stay (John 14:1-3), a place where Christ is working just like the high priest of old intercessing on our behalf ( Daniel 7;9,10 : Ecclesiastes 12: 13,14 ;Hebrews 7:24,25) 



Now coming back to the idea that death is like sleep, what does the bible say on this concept. Those who are asleep are not aware of their surrounding, or even of themselves and they await a time when they shall wake. So it is with the dead. Daniel 12 : 2 says “ and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt”. Paul puts the issue of death quiet plainly in 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13 -17 “ But I would not want you to be ignorant, concerning them that are asleep, that ye sorrow not as those who don’t have hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, Even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord ,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God : and the dead in Christ shall rise first”

So if the dead ,or those who are sleep,are awaiting the second coming of Christ, some to wake to everlasting joy by meeting him in the sky going heavenbound. Where is the consiousness of the dead now? Psalm 146 :3,4 says the very day the person dies ‘his thoughts perish”. The dead do not know anything, their love, hatred, envy is dead with them and have no say in what happens in the world of the living(Ecclesiastes 9;5,6), They don’t even praise the Lord! (Psalm 115:17)

So if the dead are not heaven praising the Lord then are the lost forever? Christ says “ I have come so that they might have life and life more abundantly John 10 :10. Those who die in Christ,or believe in him have the blest hope that on that great day when he comes for the second time, not as a lamb that takes away the sin of the world but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, they will rise from dead and meet him in the clouds to go to be with him in heaven. (1 Thessalonians 4:14 -18). The deception of an eternal spirit or a life after death comes from Lucifer himself, for did he not tell Adam and Eve that they shall not “surely die”, whilst God has said the reward of sin is death. Shall we make God a liar? Let’s hold onto the free gift that God has given us,for in one man the world was condemned and in one man the world will be saved. What profited a man to have all the riches of the world and loose his soul. Let’s hold onto Christ , for his the way the trueth and the light and the only path to immortality and happiness. Let’s listen to His Word .


 

 




85 Comments

Cody
09 Sep 2009 09:01

Grace and peace,unto you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus ... 

Time for fellowship faithful servants!!!

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 09:07

oh yeah!....i'ma be ryt back....thanx Cody  and Thabang.....

Mathaz
09 Sep 2009 09:14

When Adam and Eve sinned, death entered the world.  For one to enter into heaven, you have to die physically for heaven is a spirit realm.

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 09:16

MAY THE LORD BLESS US ALL AND OPEN THE EYES OF OUR UNDERSTANDING...AMEN -where is Pastor FK; she dealt with topic

Romans 6:23 says death is the wages of sin. Ezekieal 18;4,23 also reaffirms that concept. For God told Adam and Eve that if they partake of the fruit they will die, in otherwords if they did hlisten to God’s word they will die.....this is in reference to spirital death, i.e. the spirit man would be dead not physical death as we know it.

wow insightful Thabang - well researched

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 09:17

For one to enter into heaven, you have to die physically for heaven is a spirit realm. AMEN

monchooza
09 Sep 2009 09:36

very interesting read...thanks Thabang

Smilo
09 Sep 2009 09:53

Wow... great stuff... Dankie Thabang.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 09:54

The dead ......don’t even praise the Lord! (Psalm 115:17) 
Wow......

FK
09 Sep 2009 10:02

Thanks Thabang - may our good Lord continue to richly bless you.

Cody - I am praying continuously praying for you, asking God to preserve you, we need you on this forum.  Thanks my love.

To God be the Glory

Ms Jay - he he he Pastor FK. lol

Yes, I have a lot re the subject and will come back to share with the saints.

Phikza
09 Sep 2009 10:06

Thank you thabang for a powerful article...and Cody keep it up

Amen saints!!!

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 10:19

please do Pastor FK, where is BA and Zozoe.....guys.............

Lela
09 Sep 2009 10:33

Praise the Lord Hallellujah!!!!!!!!(my 9month old would be waving,she does everytime she hears Hallellujah)

Best-Achiever
09 Sep 2009 10:35

Great one Thabang ... and Thankx God ...

maddie
09 Sep 2009 10:45

nice one, I have always struggled with the concept of death and heaven, it makes sense from a bible's point of view but then not everyone believes in the bible.

what will happen to those who died not in Christ  when the day of rising comes, are they going to hell to burn forever, somehow I do not think that God can be that cruel, but I guess i'll never know.

some of these people were bound by the devil to do what they did, even though they wanted to do good they couldn't because they were bound, did they choose to be bound or it just happens.

anyway these r the questions I keep asking myself

FK
09 Sep 2009 10:45

Amen Thabang

This is so relevant - most funerals I attend, I hear preachers telling people that they should not worry as their loved ones are in heaven, sleeping in Abrahams bosom.  Let's just be honest guys - how big is this bosom?

People who fail to search the scriptures will never know the truth.  Everything we need to know its in the bible.

Thabang, I like the way you explain how death came about.  And the fact that you have supporting scriptures to that effect.

I would like to take it further.  Let's look at how life began and what happens when a person die.  I believe if you have an understanding on that, we will know the answer to Is death a gateway to heaven.

HOW LIFE BEGAN?
Gen 2:7 : the LORD God formed the man [e] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. 

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BODY AT DEATH?
Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.

Before I continue, I would like to know if the church is following me.  Please say AMEN if you agree to this

Best-Achiever
09 Sep 2009 10:46

Thanx MCodzzz

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 10:54

Amen FK....ke go shetse morago sisi....

and .....may u please attend to maddie's questions as well....pretty plz....

Lela
09 Sep 2009 10:56

Amen

FK
09 Sep 2009 10:58

Funny enough, we were talking about the 2nd coming last nite.  So maddie, if you just stick around, I will try my best to answer you.

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 11:05

what will happen to those who died not in Christ when the day of rising comes, are they going to hell to burn forever, somehow I do not think that God can be that cruel, but I guess i'll never know. unfortuanately they will burn forever God does not commune with the unclean

some of these people were bound by the devil to do what they did, even though they wanted to do good they couldn't because they were bound, did they choose to be bound or it just happens. Thats a lie from the devil Maddie, in our despensation its faith in Christ that gets you into heaven not works....i would like to believe that at some point in everyones life they have heard of Christ and the redepmetive plan of God and those that choose to ignore are not bound by anyone, they decide and yes the decision can be coz of some influence of the devil but its their choice to allow themselves to be influenced....

FK
09 Sep 2009 11:08

Now we know what happens to the body at death.  Cool, we moving on. 

What happens to the spirit at death?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it

Ecclesiastes 3:19 – 21 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [b] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [c] goes down into the earth?"

Job 27:3 as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils

Psalms 146:3,4 Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save.  4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.


James 2:26 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

zozoe
09 Sep 2009 11:09

thanks Thabang and Cody

thanks for clarity on this issue

Cody
09 Sep 2009 11:22

thank you FK, i know, surely the Lord will sustain me, he has been so good to me, the least I can do for him is to be obidient and to carry out the assignment that he has sent me to do.

Before I continue, I would like to know if the church is following me. Please say AMEN if you agree to this 

LOL Amen!

The concept of death has always been a bit complicated for me. I used to wonder why one would dream of a dead person giving you instructions or just plainly dream about them. Is it really called for, for one to be dreaming of people who are late?

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 11:26


The concept of death has always been a bit complicated for me. I used to wonder why one would dream of a dead person giving you instructions or just plainly dream about them. Is it really called for, for one to be dreaming of people who are late?

I read somewhere - i think on elisha goodmans web page that dreaming of pple who are late is something ungodly and that you should wake up and break that spirit - something like that....I don read his literature anymore.....there are certain things i don agree with him...so Cody when you get the answer to your question please share

FK
09 Sep 2009 11:35

What happens to the soul at death? ok what is soul?

Spirit (breath of Life) + Body = Soul

Genesis 2:7 the LORD God formed the man [e] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Ecclesiates 9:5,6,10 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [c] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.  (Thabang spoke about this under consciousness of the dead)

Psalms 6:5 No one remembers you when he is dead. Who praises you from the grave? 

Psalms 115:17,18 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to silence; 18 it is we who extol the LORD, both now and forevermore. Praise the LORD.

Job 14:21 If his sons are honored, he does not know it; if they are brought low, he does not see it (read the whole chapter)

maddie
09 Sep 2009 11:39

i hear you Ms Jay, it's just that it's so sad considering the number of people who do not believe in Christ, hell will be overcrowded.

ms jay do u also know the verse in the bible am not sure which chapter that says that some poeple even though they want to do good they can't because they are bound, please someone help me with  this verse.

what about those who have not heard the truth according to the bible, will God judge them the same way as he judges those who heard and chose not to believe.

the truth will set you free but what if i haven't heard of that truth, and what about the countries that do not even allow bibles

eish too many questions

nice
09 Sep 2009 11:39

Thank you guys, it is good to know that we can add u-Mfundisi, to abo -MaMfundisi here at TVSA................next it will be monchooza and TDC blessing us with the word.

i will comment more later on, but as I was reading I felt there was more coming only for the analysis to just end abruptly like that. i cant help but I get the feeling that something up there is missing, I dont know what it is but yeah.............it feels like there will be a Part 2.

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 11:40

what about those who have not heard the truth according to the bible, will God judge them the same way as he judges those who heard and chose not to believe. they will be judge by their conscience

Cody
09 Sep 2009 11:43

i think on elisha goodmans web page that dreaming of pple who are late is something ungodly and that you should wake up and break that spirit - something like that....I don read his literature anymore.....there are certain things i don agree with him...so Cody when you get the answer to your question please share

LOL Ms Jay, i thought I was the only one,  and i felt so guilty because the person who introduced me to his website and gave me materials is still into her, joining the prayer marathons and stuff. I used to read things from Elisha and I recently unsubcribed to his website,I think he is concerntrating more on what Satan is capable of doing, and I feel that he is treating Satan as if he has so much power in our lives, i know he has power to some degree, but I refuse to believe that he can block your blessings while God has realeased them, and that our prayers do not reach God as they are blocked by satan, and that when you pray, you must fight and raise your voice in order to overcome the spirit, kanthe is God death? i mean Hanna was murmuring(sp) in her prayer and God heard her pray.......I could go on but I dont want to deviate from today's lesson.

So ya Ms Jay, it is deemed to be a spirit of poverty, well according to Elisha Goodman. So now, if the spirit goes to God, how do they get to you? i will like to assume that they come in spirit in our dreams. How does this work vele? can people take a persons spirit when it goes to God?do people have that power? or is it a spirit of someone who was not saved when they passed away? I dont know, maybe I am just spiritually uneducated.

Thabang, please come here and participate in your article.

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 11:44

ms jay do u also know the verse in the bible am not sure which chapter that says that some poeple even though they want to do good they can't because they are bound, are you refering to Paul when he said my spirit is willing but my flesh is weak?

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 11:46

LOL Cody........I also think he is more into satan than God....but its different strokes for different folks......

maddie
09 Sep 2009 11:52

Ecclesiates 9:5,6,10 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [c] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. (Thabang spoke about this under consciousness of the dead) 
@FK

You still find people who seek guidance from the dead, but then again those might be the people who do not believe in the bible.

u know come to think of it all the answers we need are in the bible, i think the problem is the way people interpret the scriptures sometimes, that confuses people

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 12:03

wwow u guys...
The maddie;s questions hit home in that My grandfather wasnt born again,but he was a good man. And my sister always asks what about him coz we are sure my grandma is good coz she was born again.
And Ms Jay's answer is what i have heard and i hope that someone will give an answer that will make me fel better with regard to my grandpa.

But as the bible says....Jesus will not come untill the whole owrld knows...even in the deep of south america,the amazons etc...praise the Lord for missionaries.

I dunno if i missed this FK....
Spirit (breath of Life) + Body = Soul
Body goes back to the soil
What about the spirit.....???

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 12:04

wwow u guys...
The maddie;s questions hit home in that My grandfather wasnt born again,but he was a good man. And my sister always asks what about him coz we are sure my grandma is good coz she was born again.
And Ms Jay's answer is what i have heard and i had hoped that someone will give an answer that will make me fel better with regard to my grandpa.....but i know it doesnt get more true-er thn that.

But as the bible says....Jesus will not come untill the whole owrld knows...even in the deep of south america,the amazons etc...praise the Lord for missionaries.

I dunno if i missed this FK....
Spirit (breath of Life) + Body = Soul
Body goes back to the soil
What about the spirit.....???

Miss2legs
09 Sep 2009 12:14

But as the bible says....Jesus will not come untill the whole owrld knows...even in the deep of south america,the amazons etc...praise the Lord for missionaries

Yes Jesus will only come when every one knows God, that is why they say if you are a christian you have to be a witness of the word if you are not witnessing then you are not doing your part 
There will be great celebration in heaven when someone is converted

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:15

GA provided your grand dad never ever heard about Jesus christ he will be judged by his conscience......

I also missed this FK

soul = breath of life + body?

isnt it:

Man is a Spirit (breath of God) who lives in a

body - flesh
 
and has a

soul - mind, thoughts, emotions

yes GA the body goes back to the soil and the spirit sleeps until JC comes again......am I correct???? then the spirit is caught up with JC and we are given glorified bodies?

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:18

@GA

What happens to the spirit at death?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it

Ecclesiastes 3:19 – 21 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [b] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [c] goes down into the earth?"

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:21

@ Ms Jay

I also missed this FK

soul = breath of life + body?

isnt it:

Man is a Spirit (breath of God) who lives in a

body - flesh

and has a

soul - mind, thoughts, emotions 

Yes, Soul = spirit + flesh (mind, thoughts, emotions) it is a  LIVING BEING.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 12:22

yes GA the body goes back to the soil and the spirit sleeps until JC comes again......am I correct???? then the spirit is caught up with JC and we are given glorified bodies?
Thnx Ms jay.......its cleared up now.....

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:23

@ Ms Jay
yes GA the body goes back to the soil and the spirit sleeps until JC comes again

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it. It says nothing about the spirit sleeping.  Unless you have a scripture supporting this.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 12:26

all clear now FK.. ka leboga....
A friend of mine was telling her theory about the soul,man,flesh,spirit and it was all jumbled up i refused to engage her.....
I probably will now from a biblically informed point of view...
Thanx guys....

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:28

FK I still don get it, the soul doesn go to heaven does it? man = spirit + soul + body

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:28

@ GA - But as the bible says....Jesus will not come untill the whole owrld knows...even in the deep of south america,the amazons etc...praise the Lord for missionaries

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 12:29

Daniel 12 : 2 says “ and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt”. 
Just went up to the article.....is this not what Ms Jay is refering to by the spirit being asleep?

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:33

@ maddie
do u also know the verse in the bible am not sure which chapter that says that some poeple even though they want to do good they can't because they are bound, please someone help me with this verse.
 

I am not sure of which verse you are reffering to, but it sounds like you are looking for Romans 7:15- 21

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:36

@ Ms Jay
FK I still don get it, the soul doesn go to heaven does it? man = spirit + soul + body

Ok - the soul does not exist without the body and the spirit. Hence I said, for you to have a soul which is the living being, the must be a spirt and the body.  You need both (body and spirit) to have a soul.  If one is not there, then it is not the soul.  A soul is a living being.  

Do you get it now?

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:37

I thought so too FK she will tell us what she was after.....yes GA thats what i was referring to...now Pastor FK please explain for me further, am still a little lost................

Vesa
09 Sep 2009 12:37

From the reference material that I use, because I've found out that I was often confused and did not understand the bible even after re-reading it.
Psa 6:5
For in death - In the state of the dead; in the grave.
There is no remembrance of thee - They who are dead do not remember thee or think of thee. The “ground” of this appeal is, that it was regarded by the psalmist as a “desirable” thing to remember God and to praise him, and that this could not be done by one who was dead. He prayed, therefore, that God would spare his life, and restore him to health, that he might praise him in the land of the living. A sentiment similar to this occurs in Psa_30:9, “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?” So also Psa_88:11, “Shall thy loving-kindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?” So also in Isa_38:18, in the language of Hezekiah, “The grave cannot praise thee; death cannot celebrate thee; they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.” See the notes at that passage. A similar sentiment also is found in Job_10:21-22. See the notes at that passage. In regard to the meaning of this it may be remarked 

(a) that it is to be admitted that there was among the ancient saints much less light on the subject of the future state than there is with us, and that they often, in giving utterance to their feelings, seemed to speak as if all were dark beyond the grave. 

(b) But, though they thus spoke in their sorrow and in their despondency, they also did, on other occasions, express their belief in a future state, and their expectation of happiness in a coming world (compare, for example, Psa_16:10-11; Psa_17:15). 

(c) Does not their language in times of despondency and sickness express the feelings which “we” often have now, even with all the light which we possess, and all the hopes which we cherish? Are there not times in the lives of the pious, even though they have a strong prevailing hope of heaven, when the thoughts are fixed on the grave as a dark, gloomy, repulsive prison, and “so” fixed on it as to lose sight of the world beyond? And in such moments does not “life” seem as precious to us, and as desirable, as it did to David, to Hezekiah, or to Job?
In the grave - Hebrew, bishe'ôl, “in Sheol.” For the meaning of the word, see Isa_5:14, note; Isa_14:9, note; Job_7:9, note. Its meaning here does not differ materially from the word “grave.”
Who shall give thee thanks? - Who shall “praise” thee? The idea is that “none” would then praise God. It was the land of “silence.” See Isa_38:18-19. This language implies that David “desired” to praise God, but that he could not hope to do it in the grave.

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:39

OhhhhhhhhhhhhhhKayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (feeling like a idiot) I get it now; thanks

I was so confused..............Pastros....I must be excused for the day

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:41

@ GA 
Daniel 12 : 2 says “ and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt”. 
Just went up to the article.....is this not what Ms Jay is refering to by the spirit being asleep?
 

Death is reffered to sleep.  Thabang mentioned it up there.

The bible refers death as 
1. Sleep (Acts 7:60)
2. A Shadow (Psalm 23:4)
3. An enemy with a sting 1 Corinthians 15:55

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:44

WHERE IS THABANG?

PLEASE COME BACK.
LOL

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:48

Vesa brings in another important issue, making refernce to Ps of David; those quoted should be noted that he wrote them in times of depression and despondency to take certain phrases he uses out  of context and quote them as doctrine is incorrect

It therefore is paramount that we check the scripture concerned and the background in which that scriputre was written in order to fully understand it

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:50

Amen Vesa

FK
09 Sep 2009 12:53

@ Ms Jay

Please go ahead and check the scripture concerned, the bottom line is that David is aware that he needs to praise God now as there is no praising in the grave.

Mathaz
09 Sep 2009 12:54

GA provided your grand dad never ever heard about Jesus christ he will be judged by his conscience...... 

I may be wrong but Jesus said noone could come to the father excpet through him.  We must all be born again, even if you were a good man and giving to the poor you must be born again. You must have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

Mark 17:-21
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. 19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 12:58

Mathaz you are not wrong - I need to find the commentray on where I got that, its somewhere in Romans.........

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 13:02

Please go ahead and check the scripture concerned, the bottom line is that David is aware that he needs to praise God now as there is no praising in the grave.

its kool, I know where you are coming from, but @ times i noticed that when pple preach (not you) they use certain portion of scripture incorrectly as was her post...thats why I said we must always check and when we read it ourselves understand better

Best-Achiever
09 Sep 2009 13:02

Thanks Guys Very informative comments ..Keep them coming

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 13:05

amen...
hm..amen Mathaz....amen.....

FK
09 Sep 2009 13:07

@ Ms Jay, that is so true.  We need to read and stop relying on others to read for us.  And also, not to quote only what is suitable for us.  Read the whole thing and understand context of it.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2009 13:08

WHERE IS THABANG?...yeah,waar is hy?
But u guys have been awesum here , i learned so much already as usual......

FK
09 Sep 2009 13:14

maybe Thabang o kwatile - me taking over.  eish.  Askies Im sorry toe thabang

Lela
09 Sep 2009 13:57

Amen Bazalwane!!!!!!!!!!

maddie
09 Sep 2009 14:05

FK - that's the verse i was talking about, please explain

Tshd21
09 Sep 2009 14:19

I always dream of about my dead relatives. I have been dreaming about death lately and on Monday, an aunt of mine passed on. That happnes most of the times...at one stage in my life I would dream that Cody (just an example, lol) dies, and she actually would...

Is there a connection or something? Because from what I gather after reading this, dreaming of dead people is unGodly???

Someone please explain?

FK
09 Sep 2009 14:35

@ Maddie

The heading of this scripture is Struggling with Sin.

How often do we struggle with sin?I dont know about you but I struggle with it just about everyday even though I dont want to! I do that I dont want to do but that I do want to do I dont do.

Keep in mind, this is Paul talking. Yep, the same Paul we look up to as one of the greatest preachers in history had trouble with sin and temptation, just like we do. Sometimes it's easy to get buried in guilt and shame and think that being a Christ-Follower just isn't worth the effort. Don't give in to that lie...it's not that we fell, it that we get back up and try again.

In verse 24 Paul writes in this passage oh what a wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death? How will we escape the clutches of sin? 

8:1 brings us the good news after all. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. So if we walk after the spirit and commit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ the true Truth then we shall be set free but doesnt mean the Evil one wont try to tear us down. 

We are all still human with a Loving God if we are willing to come before his throne of Righteousness and confess our sins He is Faithful and Just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

FK
09 Sep 2009 14:41

Bazalwane - I actually enjoy interacting and sharing the word will all.  However, I feel that we are all over the place and no longer concentrating on the subject at hand.  Yes, I know, certain responses will spark new thoughts and we would like to then talk about them.

Suggestion - just today, I saw a lot of topics coming up and if its okay with you, can we jot these down and tackle them one by one instead of lumping them in this one article?  In that way, we will have a topic for discussion every week?  Just a thought!!!

maddie
09 Sep 2009 15:02

thanks a mil FK, 

but if we do struggle with sin, am sure non-believers also do struggle as well, what is so different from our struggle to them, okay maybe is our belief in Christ Jesus, if there's more please let me know.

if we ask for forgivess God forgives us and that's when the getting up again comes in, trust me non-believers also ask for forgiveness as well, how different is our forgiveness from them, eish trying to understand.

maybe u might say that they commit the same sins again even after they've asked for forgiveness but believers do the same.

@Tsh1

I honestly don't think it's a sin to dream about the dad, I mean these people have been with u for most of ur lives do u think their memories will vanish just bcos they're no more hence the dreaming part.

I think the problem is when you do what you might consider them to have told u in those dreams, but then again some instructions might not be harmful for example u might have a dream of a dead person telling you to stop drinking, or take care of ur sibling etc. that is noble. 

now the next question will be what about those dreams where they tell u to perform some african ritual, are those still good dreams/instructions and should u act on those.

and then it comes to the question of tradition and culture, some might argue that why is our tradition considered barbaric/demonic, r some of these rituals against the word of God, but then verse u mentioned explained that the dead are not to b consulted cos they have no say in what goes on in the world of the living.

sorry for a blog within a blog, i might have asked questions and answered myself in the process I know, I guess that's part of understanding.

Tshd21
09 Sep 2009 15:08

Thank you Maddie

FK
09 Sep 2009 15:11

Dead people cant talk, hear or make demands as we have read.  So who are these people talking to you?

The devil himself.  So be careful

Cody
09 Sep 2009 15:14

Why le sa nkarabe bo Patros and Pastresses?

Ms. Jay
09 Sep 2009 15:15

OFF TOPIC: guys how do you minister to a hindi without offending them? i have asked all the questions I could possibly ask without offending them

Lela
09 Sep 2009 15:16

The only difference between a believer and and a non believer is that the latter does not acknowlegde Christ as a saviour so they will be judged for that and unfortunately the bible points out that there is an eternal place for both for the other one its heaven and for the other one its hell. At the end of it all God loves all and wishes we can all be saved and come to the knowlegde of the truth.

FK
09 Sep 2009 15:17

@ Cody
 Is this your question?

So now, if the spirit goes to God, how do they get to you? i will like to assume that they come in spirit in our dreams. How does this work vele? can people take a persons spirit when it goes to God?do people have that power? or is it a spirit of someone who was not saved when they passed away? I dont know, maybe I am just spiritually uneducated.

FK
09 Sep 2009 15:20

BAZALWANE - WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY SUGGESTION?

NEW REQUESTS ARE COMING - HE HE HE.

Cody
09 Sep 2009 15:41

Yes FK

maddie
09 Sep 2009 15:50

off topic , am listening/ watching the live music video of Nicole on You Tube My Redeemer lives , oh boy that song is powerful, sorry bazalwane, it just that it touched my soul/spirit

KewlGaL
09 Sep 2009 16:28

Kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa I cant believe it, ppl believe this story of JC comin back in cloud blowin a horn to wake all the ones who believed in him.. Hahahahahahaha have you all seen how these supposedly " Christians" behave. Its Satanic. they lie in name of JC. 

Ok I know my head is gonna chopped,saying this but, WAKE UP ppl, there's no hell or heaven, the story was written so You could believe tht JC is the only thing that will give you eternal life after death which is a lie. No one has died & came back to tell us how heaven or hell looks like, why? cos there's none of those places in existence.
The sad thing that this religion did was to brainwash ppl into thinkin its the Ultimate & since ppl are so scared of dying JC story was created so as to give hope that you will wake up again after dying.. Lol Gosh!! Ok guys pls lets reason read the bible with an open mind you will see soo many contradicting stories in there.. And by the way the Bible is not the original thing. i'm sure everybody here knows that the bible we have is "The Version" of King James. notice the word " Version" which means NOT the original. So if its not the original ask ourself watsin the original version. Guys we the youth of this time are soo lucky to have all these resources & knowledge at our fingertips, which was previously hidden from us. I urge you to have an enquiring mind about things that affect our lives, it does'nt matter what your findings end up being but atleast lets questions these things, find out the real truth then decide what you want to believe after you've done ur own research, we cant just accept & believe what we are told, this is what is killing a lot of people, Lack of knowledge. Let educate ourselves guys. 

Firstly or lastly, whateva! I really have a problem with the pictures of JC, this to me is a subconcious game being played. Why do we have pictures of him being a White person? Does this mean God is White.. Then I for 1 will not pray to that God sorry. I will pray to u Qamata whom my ancestors prayed to b4 the JC story came to our shore. and Qamata by the way is God, but not the White one. People who belive in JC always say God does'nt have a colour but I always wonder how come JC has one. BIG LIE right there.

I am a true believer of God & has shown his love for me in many waysthan 1 & I am his child, but I refuse to be mentally slaved by some people who have an agenda of controlling the world through religion. If there's heaven & if heaven is attained by believing in some White oke then bring on the Hell for me. Thank you..

Ndiyayishiya indawo kwabasemsama!

Tshd21
09 Sep 2009 16:43

KewlGal: I am a true believer of God .....

 and yet you don't believe in heaven...or the bible???
Kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa tl tl tl tl tl you just made my day, tl tl tl tl buahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha tl tl tl tl tl tl tlt LOL

Lela
09 Sep 2009 16:44

I thank God that after having done all the research and having heard all the theories Jesus found me when I was lost and redeemed me from distruction now I'm happy to know Him for myself and to have experinced His baptismal in water and in Spirit and to have His Word(bible) as my light and my shield, and as my only source of reference, and the Holy Spirit to reveal God's Word to e so that uit is not just another version . I thank Him for revieling himself to me in such a way that I know that Jesus is indeed alive and that no matter who may try and make me feel stupid about it I'm so confidebt of this very thing,my Redeemer Lives,He died and rose again and glory be to the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit. Oh! I just feel like praising Him in the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KewlGaL
09 Sep 2009 16:49

Lol.................... Lol..........


Tshd21, glad to be of service to you my dear. I think I should get paid for doin that some people do.. Lol

Lela praise him dear, go on!!

Sips
09 Sep 2009 17:23

Great stuff bazalwane - wish i had time to comment....ONE DAY EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT HE IS GOD AND EVERY KNEE WILL BOW DOWN TO HIM...Thina we must just continue praying that He's people may know Him. Much love to you all

tha - bang
10 Sep 2009 10:00

Hey Guys, I'm glad to see there's been sharing of ideas happening in my absence.I'm currently in and out of the office, cause of a shoot im busy on hence I have'nt had a chanace to partake in the discussion.But I believe FK and everyone else have been doing a great job in guiding the discussion.Another sign that God does not really need individuals to do His work ,He will find a way with or without you.

Back to the topic at hand as far as dreaming about dead people,my grandfather passed away 3 years ago.Something I had a hard time accepting it,cause he died when I least expected it ,when i did not have time to see him. So for almost 6 months after that I will have dreams about him as if he is round and not dead and in one dream I confronted him and told him I know that this is not him in these dreams and i want to know his game,is the devil trying to toy with me?and rebuked the spirit in Christ name. Since then the dreams stopped. Where the dreams just a manifestation of my own loss and wanting or was the devil trying to get a footing into my life? I dont know,but I know when I rebuked the spirit in my dream,it stopped.

I remember Saul, when Saul was in trouble and he went to a witch and it conjoured a spirit that pretended to be the prophet Samuel. It s very dangerous to be playing around with such thngs,the devil can play tricks on us,the word says the dead know nothing,thats good for me.So I had faith that the man was not my grandfather because of what I had read and known in the bible,that was my standing point.

As for the spirit, for me and my understanding is that a soul is made up of a body + spirit = a living soul . For Adam was created ( body) and God breathed into his nostril ( spirit) and Adam became a living soul. Where was Adam before God breated life in him, he did not exist ,only a body was there,where is Adam now since he is dead, he no longer exist.For the breath of life is no longer with him and his body is but dust now,until Christ second coming.

As far as the question of hell and damnation, the grop willing,I will write my thoughts on it and what I have heard what the bible says.and post them as a different blog later on.So what I know is that hell is real,but its not hell with satan with a big fork trying to grill us into kentucky fried chicken.Nor was hell prepared for all the naughty children.Hell was meant to be the final punishment for Satan and his angelic host that followed him, whilst Christ gave us a way out of it some of us still choose it by rejecting Christ and His saving Grace. 

Like Sodom and Gomorah that burned down and was never ever more, hell is eternal in that sense that those who will burned in the hell fires shall forever be destroyed not to be ever resurrected again.But praises be to God that ,the lake of fire will be replaced with a new earth and a new heaven. Where man and God will be reunited, although we shall mourn for those who may not make it to heaven but I believe life will continue. In a new earth made new,where the orginal plan of creationwill be restored with no touch of sin.
But I will address that issue more  approprietely in another blog.

I sincerly apologise for my unavailablty but one has shoots and I dont have internet on my phone no more (ive downgraded) so I hope the discussion continues without me.

FK
10 Sep 2009 10:36

Hello - Thabang - we do undersatnd.  And thank you so much for this.

I take it that bazalwane understands and they are clear that DEATH IS NO GATEWAY INTO HEAVEN as per the scriptures.

Cody
10 Sep 2009 11:05

dream that Cody (just an example, lol) dies, and she actually would... 

LMAO at Tshd21: it a pity you dont know ho re im immortal! uyaloya nje wena Tshd21 that is the answer to your question. if uloya uyaloya girl there is nothing you can do and that should conclude that what you are dreaming about is ungodly. LOL just joking girl.


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