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Mcdonaldisation and Tithing

Written by tzhavile from the blog lets re-write this on 20 Oct 2011
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Two weeks back I managed to drag myself to church after God knows how many months. I was busy singing my lungs out as I generally love ‘difela’. I was singing so hard to a point whereby I wished the whole service could be just us singing and praising in song as I felt that my sins were being washed away. Don’t get me wrong; as much as I am a sinner, I pray almost every day as I do believe in the higher power.
 
Now back to issue I want to discuss. There I was after singing, seated and ready for the word of God. Immediately when the preacher opened his mouth, it suddenly clicked why I stopped going to church at the first place. It was during a time when we were supposed to tithe. Before tithing, the preacher gave this sermon about how we are supposed to tithe and how important it is. 


See, this little tithing ceremony that happens before the service and solely dedicated to tithing is the one that actually made me give up on today’s churches. I have been to a whole lot of them and they all seem to have adopted the same formula. At this one church that I once went to they had three of their ‘disciples’ telling us about the importance and relevance of tithing and of course when they started my mind was looking for the nearest exit as I was just not interested. 


Trust me, I have heard it all with ‘priests need to eat too’ ’we need to fix light bulbs and pay electricity in church’ blah blah blah, which is perfectly understandable. But where I get lost is when we have that special sermon that speaks solely about money, that sermon that makes you feel guilty about having what you have. Can’t a guy just pray and sing to God without being told about money in church? 


To distract you a little bit, on my final year of studying Media studies, we once did a case study about a very well-known priest who earned millions from this church that has since become a franchise; a phenomenon that is also in fashion in most Johannesburg churches, your typical God First, Rivers church, LGTG etc.

 
Now my question is: to what point to we stop commercialisation of churches? What is the real reason behind this tithing sermon that forms the central part of the overall sermon? When I was growing up, I used to think that preaching was actually a calling, is it now a career? And the franchising part: is church as a career now a booming business? (Bear in mind the breakaway churches such as Shembe and the influence behind such breakaways and don’t get me started on the Pastor Joshua, pastor James, pastor Peter et al that sprouted like mushrooms around Braamfontein and the JHB CBD). 
 
I was lucky enough that my mother was the one who actually made me to look at churches this way. Her exact words ‘nna le modimo waka re sharp, bo mme ba merapelo le baroti , ke batho fela’.




41 Comments

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 11:26

whats your take? to you church goers, what exactly do you feel about tithing?

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 12:13

Tzhavile.........God is so good that He created us made us kings on His land and left us to choice..........

...........By the information you receive you choose whats good for you.......and stick to it without comprimise otherwise who's fooling who?

.........you want to be a Mathematician you do Maths from A till you are qualified to carry out the task & educate others (either in service/training)

--------same thing as Your Innerman-I have an issue with Religion.........i am more on the side of finding my purpose on earth and knowing the mastermind behing this.......

So......I chose Christianity......(to follow Christ) i.e I use the Bible in its in entire content-not comprimising the information for my benefit & others around me.......

ITS MY CHOICE.......i will stick to it and will educate others (who are interested ) about it......i will testitfy (tell them) about my life before;temptations;The Bible and how i used the Word to overcome challenges........and I will keep on learning from others.............

Had my choice been Muslim,Hindism,Africanism, Jewish etc.........i would have done the same...........

So I made a point to read the Bible myself about tithing;offerings etc.......and always Joyous when others testify on how their cheerful giving liberated them...
I am glad to have friends(long time) who are Christians- not in my Ministry using the  Word on cheerful giving & understanding what they are doing-they are financially stable-and moving from glory to glory......

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 12:16

and I am glad i go to a Ministry of people that took time to study the Word, like Jesus did.....i realise i was brought up in a religious ministry where we were taught things not even in the Bible........i read scriptures to my Grandma the other day and asked her why no one..........all this years......never challenged things written in our Dikopelo....etc.......i preffer to be taught by people who can read the the Bible and i can follow what they are reading

Green.arrow
20 Oct 2011 12:18

Tshavs my bra....I echo! And infact ur mom speaks like my mom. I think my mom is gangsta. As great a woman of God as she is, ga a wele wele fela. I'll share my opinion a lil later, but one thing for now: I DO NOT fall for the tithe and offering sermons. Further more....as long as I've been mzakes, I have never 'fallen ka moya' when prayed for. My momma taught me to stand one foot ahead and one towards the back when prayed for, so those pastors who LITERALLY push you, don't succeed to push me. Anyway, ill be back bout my opinion on tithing and the negative end of the whole situation.

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 12:47

and I am glad i go to a Ministry of people that took time to study the Word, like Jesus did.....

@ntlewame used to share same sentiments, but what i want to know from you is: is preaching a career? i mean when we were growing up, all these preachers were always on some "I am not doing this for the money coz it is a calling" 

are we ever gonna have priests who are honest enough to tell us that preaching as a career is infact a proffession with lost of money?

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 12:51

I DO NOT fall for the tithe and offering sermons

@GA and they are always deep these sermons

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 13:29

if you study the Bible you find that the Pauls;Johns;Jesus;Peter's etc were (doctors-carpenters -fishermen etc ) as Jesus recruited them they left what they did (careers), to follow Jesus-if you study deep you find that Jesus spend time studyings the writtings of the prophets before he began to teach he then taught them-before they taught-and they observed as he performed deeds & miracles (on-job training). They were always provided food where they taught..........

Believe me those that are teaching for self enrichment will always be caught and receive their payment-mine is to do what he word says.......I follow God not men, so whats important is my peace;Joy;prospertiy & finding my purpsose-and being a Pastor does not mean you should be poor-you should actually be the one that gives first-unless if you do your own financials-otherwise your staff will see how you operate-they will follow suit and i dont think much good will be filtered to your congregation-

We know the world evolves.......(technology etc) as much as this remained the same ......people leaving their first careers to spend time studying the Word before they embark on teaching others........

None of us are perfect (the Judas;etc) still needed to work on their faith........still happens...but the issue is -dont challenge what you chose to believe-believe/not full stop, you will just be fooling yourself being on N1 while going to Cape Town.

promisez
20 Oct 2011 13:31

i grew up Catholic,,,and never had heard anything about tithing and all of that! 

met my man, from a pentecostal church, got transfomerd and followed him to his church! i can proudly tell you that im in Love with the Lord its soooo amazing,,, I tithe every 10% of what i get every month! i stil get taxed by the government while im at it!

I do so to show gratitude and thank him for all he has blessed me with! 

black folk stop being stingy mani! blessed is the hang that gives afterall!

BUT its a free country, do whatever pleases your soul, if u feel guilty?? do something about! pray,,,, the light will shine upon you!

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 13:38

and which church/temple does not teach on giving and encourage the members to give?

I grew up giving and glad to be aware of the economy and the extend of cost pastors are going through have have the word reach people

You guys are in the Media; how much does it cost to have a 30min/1 hour slot on radio/tv-(so that the world may know the gospel since people dont go to churches this days)..........thats just a bit of it-get involved in your church if you are actively involved you will see that money......are being put to good use-------and some people dont even mind giving R1m check to the church..........because they want to and they believe in the course of spreading the gospel

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 13:40

cheque

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 13:44

black folk stop being stingy mani! blessed is the hang that gives afterall

@promisez - i do get your point, however, from the point of the article all i want to know is, cant i just praise the Lord in his house without being hustled for money? (e.g the tithing sermon) shouldnt tithing come out of your own will; without preachers "screaming" to you about it?

personally, I would rather donate my tenth of my salary to a charity.

makisto
20 Oct 2011 13:45

I hear your argument tzhavile but nna I usually don't debate the Bible because it we will never agree. I would rather talk this with people I go to the same church with. As for tithing, you may need to read Malachi 3 verse 10. That's my take Jo

promisez
20 Oct 2011 14:23

of cos you can donate you money where ever you want,,,, freely

but your feelings should not stop the pastor from preaching about tithe!

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 14:39

Try studying the verses below for yourself-you may have missed the teachings while getting irritated

Philippians 4:18 –
Matthew 26:6-13- As the woman used her oil (must have been expensive) even his disciples complained (small faith)
Matthew 14:17-21
1 Kings 17:9-16 –The Word of God Guarantees that you shall not lack as you give 

 and a tithe is not giving......its acknowledgement that what you receive comes from God and you obey the teachings by giving the 10nth which is not yours anyway.
if your faith/understanding is not yet @ that level, just be patient one day you will (but dont tarnish the Word) 

The Word say your tenth goes to the temple-donations are not tithing

Favoured
20 Oct 2011 14:56

yes Ntlwa  Malachi 3:10 (parapharsing)"bring your tithe and offering in the Storehouse(church well my opinion)

i think the reason pastors preach about that its bcoz tithe n offering is the word of God and why does it become a problem when they preach about those but when they preach about something alse you dnt have a problem? its not everybody at church who knows the importance and benefits of tithing and offering and you must remember word of God can never be preached in vain always it is for somebody to be edified, so just open up and learn or hear the word of God for it always set us free

Tshd21
20 Oct 2011 15:05

Interesting read. Pitty I can't reply thoroughly because The Big Boss is not happy with me and my dept today and he is angry and spitting fire and on my black you know what... Please pray for me while you're at it guys

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 15:09

i think the reason pastors preach about that its bcoz tithe n offering is the word of God and why does it become a problem when they preach about those but when they preach about something alse you dnt have a problem?

@fav I do get you. but my problem is: why in each and every service do they specifically put a sermon aside for tithing? it makes sense if the  sermon of the day is based on tithing but if it happens on each and every service staright before tithing its another story 

Green.arrow
20 Oct 2011 15:15

Lol @Tshid, did you tithe...tltltl... Okay, Ntlhewame...tell ya what, I'm gonna read yo comments first, calmly and make sense of them and everything else in my head.....and re tla bona.... While you are shedding scriptural light....there is a question that has been nagging me for a while. Nimrod Nkosi asked a while back on his show, gore WHY is it its only in black churches mo go castiwang madimoni, people are falling and rolling, talking gibbering, etc etc...and ko di kerekeng tsa makgowa, church service is peacefull and orderly and what not? This question fed to the fact that whenever I watch those soweto tv sunday services, my heart bleeds at what I witness there.

Green.arrow
20 Oct 2011 15:22

Okay, b4 I read Nthle and Favoured aka zozoe! .... There is something WRONG with what is happening now, the prosperity ministries, something aint right. And sadly, they use scripture to motivate, and get to people....I Love my Lord, but just as He was pissed of at people making the church a market place, there are some things that happen in His name that are just not sound. And this days, I guess its signs of the end times, there are many such things and we must talk, probe etc...

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 15:23

i know in Business maths  class we had a challenge with Probability-it seemed every class had-it was one of the last chapters but we were informed about it before the lecture 1 and most time was spend on it........

So if a teacher(pastor) finds a weakness in his church.......he will have to ensure he does something until he sees changes i guess..

our Pastor has been teaching about Love-for 3 months now.....and getting deep each time.........i was like.......yoh ! we seem to have issues (and true that)

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 15:30

he warned of thieves & false prophets-those who use his name in vain will be punished! and we do see them going down.........(while @ it none of us is perfect)

Embrace the teachings (if  they help you make sense of the Bible), each men will be judged according to his deeds.....(including pastors)
God can use anyone to bring salvation to you.....

Gues what.........i do get temptationnnnnnnss (when im supposed to tithe)......but i know its a good thing..........im working on it......the more i hear the teachings the more great leaves my heart.....

as Christians..........(following Christ) we are not of the law(Moses), but were given only one commandment to love thy God........and others.........(so by default the law included )
so if i love him i will follow his word......
the sex before marriage thing...also i knew.............
its between me & God but i know whats right

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 15:34

in my church we have all races.......and i got born again in secondary school (white only teachers)-we got special pastors fill us with the Holy Spirit (speak in tongues)....mara nna akere my family were just Religious not spiritual......so ke qetile matric...ke sa dibona...............i used to be scared when they spoke in tongues tl tl tl

nonsense
20 Oct 2011 15:40

Clearly some of us have got the misconception of the bible . Malachi and Deuteronomy actually speak about the 10%. Actually only in Malachi does GOD say put me to test never anywhere in the bible does God give the challenge. Therefore if you are to tithe let it not to be to men but to your God he is the one who rewards whatever is done. So its a personal thing and your faith and trust into the Lord.

caro
20 Oct 2011 15:42

LOL GA . WA   ITSE  CNT STOP LAUGHING

Ntlewame2
20 Oct 2011 15:44

working while blogging should not be an excuse for my bad gramma/spelling

*as i hear the word more i am encouraged to stop being gready*

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 15:55

My take on offering is founded on the following:

The hand that giveth is blessed

It's happened so many times in my life where i have really felt i am blessed because i am 'giving'. it's just in me. it's probably in all of us. that thing where you give cause you're touched to. i dont give to car guards, beggers, charity so i'm not talking about being generous. the other kind of giving where you hear someone's story and you just wanna give.

The word is a lesson and teachers must be paid for teaching

I can sit with my bible and read a chapter and it would mean nothing. Mention of a snake coming out of the fire and grabbing a man's arm and the man shaking his arm and throwing the snake back into the fire means just that to me. But when that scripture is unpacked and i leave church feeling SPOKEN TO, or feeling LOVED once more; in the depths of my heart i feel the priest/minister/whatever they are called should be Thanked. And i dont want to shake his hand and say thanks on my way out of church. It just feels right to thank him by making an offering.

I am hoping i will get to that stage where i can freely TITHE. I haven't gotten there yet. i know people for whom tithing has brought them immense reward. i am just not in that financial mental state to not count my cents when i think about giving 10% of my salary. i will pray for this to change and i look forward to the day when i GLADLY tithe.

I dont offer each time i go to church. i give when i feel the sermon has left an indelible mark on my spiritual growth.

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 16:02

@Tshid I am praying for you

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:07

cant i just praise the Lord in his house without being hustled for money?

To be honest churches do need money. the live bands playing in church providing the music you so enjoy either wear uniform or require musical instruments. buildings must be repaired/maintained/extended. etc etc etc. Priests dont have any other job but to minister to you. i really dont see how churches will survive without money.

so yes, they must beg for it, they must do what they must to make a living. we lie in job interviews to get the jobs we want. we lie about late coming to avoid written warnings, heck we do what we must to survive. what's a little coaxing (in church) in the grand scheme of things? 

if all you want is music, buy gospel cds and enjoy them in the comfort of your home/car.

Green.arrow
20 Oct 2011 16:12

Eish, I'm only reading bits and pieces of commenst, ke ilo di dulela fase later and come to a sound view, I'm well aware that mine may be irrational and sensational now. @Toxic, I read a bit on ur comment about tithing bringing your friends immense rewards. That right there is one of my...gripes. I have seren God, my Lord come through for me so many times in my life, even at my broke most, even when I was deep in the muddy clay of unholy living, his ever sufficient grace. I resent the idea, the notion that when you give, when you tithe, u must doing it expecting a reward. Inspite of the sow and reap scripture. Scripture is subject to interpretation (IMO) and that saw and reap one, I don't see it the same way. Further more, the thing about giving to me is that, I may not always give at church, but God knows my giving heart and to whom I give. Sometimes, when this offering sermons are served, one feels bad as if they did not just buy 2 grand worth of groceries for a homeless youth center just yesterday. Something, about this ministry, is not right, the master manupulators have found a loophole and they are using it. And I choose not to participate in giving to a denomination, a building, Christians all arround the worl make the CHURCH, not a building and a name. So I give to the church at large, be it at a street corner, a family etc...were I see a need.

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 16:14

@toxic, I am thoroughly enjoying your imput. lets say in this we are talking about priests who actually have day jobs and other businesses. also, from you imput, is it safe to say that Preaching is a career? one that you can make money out of?

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:17

@GAm

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:17

@GA,

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:18

@GA, yo

tzhavile
20 Oct 2011 16:20

Christians all arround the worl make the CHURCH, not a building and a name. So I give to the church at large, be it at a street corner, a family etc...were I see a need

@GA -wow! I share same sentiments,

Mathaz
20 Oct 2011 16:22

I just shared on the other blog how i was coerced into stopping tithing because my husband is unsaved yada yada..anyway i am a firm believer of tithing and have been blessed immensely.  I started tithing with nothing really but soon could see results of it, please note that the results are not necessarily of monetary value but i was at peace, my spirit was at peace and i was content with what i had.

I then was blessed financially and i could account to everycent that comes out of my account.  Tithing is difficult and cannot be comprehended if you have not had a revelation of what it is about.  My favourite verse of tithe is 1 Kings 17:18...It was when Elisha aksed the widow to prepare some food for him.   God first said to Elisha, i have instructed a widow  to feed you..She was trying to explain that she has a little oil and that she was to prepare something for her and her son so they may eat and die since they have nothing left to eat.  Please note that there was also famine.  Elisha then says please prepare some for me first, can you imagine his nerve??  I mean the woman just said she has little oil and flour and then he is thinking of himself, how selfish??  She obeys and then God blessed them and had plentiful.

Moral of the story is that God says we should trust him with the little that we have, after all his riches are endless.  She trusted that Elisha was a man of God and therefore there is no way that they could starve.  I know that tithing is the right thing for me to do and therefore obeys it.  I also tithe coz of a seed that i am planting for my children.  How many Jews are broke, I follow their examples and try to do mostly what they do but then again as i said, i have not tithed for 2 months.

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:23

tjo at those multiple replies.

Anyway, @GA, your belief is correct. God does not just give to those who tithe. we all know this. even people who in our view are evil, appear to be blessed. Anyway, my point i guess is that there is reward in tithing. i am not pitting tithing against other forms of giving elsewhere outside of church.

i dont want to be drawn into a debate about why people SHOULD tithe. all i was saying was that i offer for the reasons i gave. hope that's clear.

lets say in this we are talking about priests who actually have day jobs and other businesses. 

I would still OFFER if their sermon touched me. think of a sermon as a form of service where you have a choice to pay depending on the quality of the service. that kinda thinking drives the logic behind MY offering.

Toxic
20 Oct 2011 16:27

Preaching is a career? one that you can make money out of?

yhu! i am so afraid of cornering myself by responding to this question. i think it should be. people must study the bible. meditate on it. write 10 hour pages on it and become qualified preachers hehehe

mbulela
20 Oct 2011 16:56

This issue keeps coming up on all the blogs i visit.
I wish i could just cpoy and paste through them all.
i want to type a long sermon on this but it seems this is the wrong time of the day.
I will return tomorrow and i hope their will be further discourse on this.

mbulela
20 Oct 2011 16:56

@Tshd21, may your day end well.
It is well with you.

VusiK
20 Oct 2011 18:44

@Tzhavile .. Id have a lot to say ... but I wont write anything!!!

tzhavile
21 Oct 2011 08:46

@VusiK-  why? share and enlighten


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