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What have you done?

Written by Segololo from the blog Oh Moments on 21 Apr 2008
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As I walk into the bathroom and see small, tiny, little pieces of toilet paper strewn across the floor I asked, for what sounds like the gatritzillion times in my two year old son's life, "What have you done?" How does he manage to do such things in the 3 minutes that he is out of sight? Anyways, the despair in my face clearly did not sway him as he gives me a shy cute smile that melts my heart away. And then gibberish comes out his mouth with “mama” somewhere thrown in there… *shaking my head* I then go through a psychological mess as I attempt to calculate how much the 2-ply paper cost and why the hell I bought 2-ply when life is so expensive now and my a$$ can't tell the difference. Why the hell is it always at a point that he can reach it, anyways?

*shaking my head* and this is the same reaction I seem to have with our president Thabo Mbeki. Every time I see his name blazoned across the TV or the paper and I pay attention to it; I know he is gonna mess up. I end up with my face in the same toddler dilemma despair and the question "What have you done?" comes out of my mouth. The response I get is not even a cute smile; I get this grey haired face staring blankly into space looking smug. Why? Why? Why? Why does he keep doing all these things?

I keep wondering what and how I will remember him in my old age. Will I be proud to name him as one of the presidents in my time or will I shamefully, in my dentures and grey hair, say "That Thabo Mobeki messed up. I used to have a job in a thriving company, a home in a great suburb and look at me now. This country is in the state that not even that great man Manellow fought for" AND I am sitting under a fig tree back home in Bophutatswana.

How will you remember our president? I know he is giving me a lot of sleepless (not sexual) nights worrying about if my children will live in the country I love. Or will they be in a similar situation as people in Rwanda, DRC and Zimbabwe. Oh puhlease! Don't give me the "this country is not going to the dogs, it will not be like Zimbabwe". Those are the same words that were uttered by some of the "great" leaders in Africa.

Look at most of our African countries, they never saw it coming. I watched an Oprah exclusive on the women in the Bukavu region in the DRC, and the special assignment report a couple of weeks ago on the same area - the warlodrs from the neighbouring countries in that region have taken over and government can't do squat to them. They rape, torture and kill at will. A couple of days from now on, the weapons shipment from China will arrive (or it already has) in Zimbabwe to what Zanu-PF calls "war rebels". What will happen then? The people are already starving and suffering. How often do you see the Zim bus filled right to the top with huge luggage and the people squished into it looking like sardines? What did Thabo say? "Crisis? What crisis?"

Aren't those the same words he said when the DRC election results were being contested and bullets were flying everywhere in Kinshasa? Yep, and now Jean-Pierre Bemba is in exile. Will Morgan Tsivangarai have to get the same plight? Aren’t those the same words the Belgians and the French uttered when the Rwandans were being massacred in what is now known as "the genocide of our time"? Aren’t those the same words that were uttered by some people when the Kenya election squabbles started and people started dying?

I look at my son with his fake cry as he yells “mama” because he knows he messed up and I am not saying anything. At that moment all I can really believe and do is hope he grows up to be a respectable and responsible young man; and that is all I have. I hope. For Mr President I just can’t seem to bring myself to hope that he will leave a legacy that we will remember proudly. As I ponder Mr President’s tenure I wonder if he actually cares. What will he leave for future generations?




94 Comments

Fluffy Head
21 Apr 2008 04:00

Sego, I know just how you feel hey.

Nanno
21 Apr 2008 04:17

this is a good article, with so much depth! unfortunately we tend to turn a blind eye on issues that are quite important in our lives! Maybe you must replace david bullard in sunday times,.. hahahaha!

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 04:37

"war rebels". Not war vets (veterans)???

Anyway, on the Zim issue as much i would like to hate Mugabe for what he is doing, i can't shake off the feeling that there's something the people that support him (including Mbeki) know that we don't and until i get to that source of knowledge i'll sit on the fence on this one.

As for the No crisis comment, Mbeki explained that he was responding to the freeness/fairness of the election process and not the "socio-economic situation in Zim ".

Otherwise, i enjoyed reading this!

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 04:49

WOW Sego, fantastic article, it got me thinking real hard. U know this is the same thing I wonder about Thabo Mbeki, if he really cares.

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 04:53

P.S - I bet u people are coming to view ur article, but choosing not to comment, and my question is why are good informative articles not given the attention they deserve???

Simmone
21 Apr 2008 04:55

I will remember him as the guy who effectively created a vibrant economy that reassured the poor that the only way they could afford to put bread in their mouths was to commit fraud and through crime. The guy who in the expense of the poor tried to create a first world country out of a third world country. The guy who couldn’t differentiate between honesty and loyalty. The guy who mastered the art of lying with a straight face.

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 05:01

"The guy who mastered the art of lying with a straight face."
U can say that again, I know people always gaan aan en aan that Economics is his speciality but I just can't help but notice the way he is proactive about other countries more than his own!!!!!!!!!

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 05:02

@Nice One Sego ... you are not alone there dear!!!!

i jut wonder if he real live in the country that we are living in or he real went to the Zimbabwe we heard about and see in the news .... to me he real doesnt give a damn about anyone but himself ... this real gets into me

belz
21 Apr 2008 05:08

LOL Simmone!!! This article got me thinking so hard, i actually makes me feel very angry!!! How can Mbeki say those elections were fair, if they were why do we still not know who the president for tha country is??? huh??? why, how does a country live with such uncertainty???  Sego you are very right i always say to my friend if SA doesn't change whatever is going on now, this country will also be the same as the rest of the African countries that are going through all this ish!!! im so tired of all these leaders who because everything is ok on their side sit and pretend as if nothing is wrong when they know they are hiding their friends or colleagues mistakes, im tired!!!!

Cnglemother
21 Apr 2008 05:09

Maybe the poor old man just does not know what action to take with all the situations he is not taking care of & and all this just too overwhelming, I was so embarrased when Morgan Tshangirai announced it on TV "that we will be relieving Mr Mbeki on his duties as a Mediator and we say thank you Mr Mbeki" & i was like geez is the dude that useless but what do i know hey? Nonny my answer to your question would be that maybe we are having a Mbeki moment. I just look at him and feel sorry for him and the way his looks are detiorating is just not cool, the man does not shave all of a sunday.  

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 05:10

Tox: Veterans or rebels? The point is the civil war in Zim was long ago. What I would consider a "war veteran" is a person in their 50s or 60s who actually fought in that war, but what I see on the media is men in their late teens or 30s brandishing guns. Those to me are rebels!  It seems a little too convenient to be called a veteran than a rebel, doesn't it? 

Crisis? Whether Mr President was commenting on the election process or socio-economic condition he has still failed to hear and see the plight of the Zim people. He may know something but do the people need to suffer like they do? Please Tox, tell me you have never seen those busses and taxis with Red registrations streaming and out of Joburg with huge purchases? That, to me, is a sad reality that our President has failed. How much is a loaf of bread in Zim if The Star newspaper costs over ZM$250 000 000? 

While you sit, comfortably, on the fence I (and others) see/read/hear the Zim people calling for change. AND they live the reality of not knowing what their president and our president know while they can't live as comfortably as the presidents do? Even if Mugabe wins the election, how will history remember him? Is he the man that brought the Zim nation to success or ruin? How will history remember our president? is he the man that stood by while people in Zim were starving and being massacred by rebels? Whether we like it or not, those people are human beings with dreams, wishes and hopes. AND all they ask for is to live being able to afford food, water, a good home and earn a living.

Nonny: I know, my dear. All I can do is try to make people evaluate the situation we are living in (as I view it) and HOPE that I will be emlightened by another bloggers view.

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:11

P.S - I bet u people are coming to view ur article, but choosing not to comment, and my question is why are good informative articles not given the attention they deserve???

the difference between SG and HG...

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 05:16

and that economy thing ... it is real annoying me now with all the interest rate, petrol, food hike .. hhayi mina i dont see where all that economy me thing help us .. someone please educate  me ..... we are busy maintaning children for people who doesnt give a damn about getting pregnant 3 times a year ... hhayi suka ... and with that money that they dont even know where it comes from raising up every April they now gonna give birth 5 times a year ... hhayi suka!

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 05:17

"the difference between SG and HG..."
LMAO @ Tox, so clearly this is HG material........LOL

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:18

Oh, i get the rebel/vets thing now.

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:21

we are busy maintaning children for people who doesnt give a damn about getting pregnant 3 times a year ... hhayi suka ... and with that money that they dont even know where it comes from raising up every April they now gonna give birth 5 times a year ... hhayi suka!

Nah nah nah, comrade Best-Achiever: ORDER!! Let's not exaggerate and lets not allow our emotions to get in the way of logic...who on earth gets pregnant 3 times a year or gives birth 5 times a year? Hayi bo!

Cnglemother
21 Apr 2008 05:22

I wish this shoot-to-kill system for the cops works so all these mafacka's could die. I dont give a damn about no damn human's rights violations for criminals. I wish the police could just fire at them even if the criminals are not retaliating (sp), any direct contact with them criminals should result into killing field nje qha.

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 05:23

BA, don't even get me started on the whole mali yeqolo business, this is also another suppose to be great plan ka Mbeki that is getting outta hand........mximmmmm!!!!

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 05:25

As for the No crisis comment, Mbeki explained that he was responding to the freeness/fairness of the election process and not the "socio-economic situation in Zim ". 

For a man of his intelligence (or so I assumed for the longest time...shem he dont get my vote no more) I still dont see what he meant when he said there is no crisis, even if its with regards to FREENESS/FAIRNESS of the election process.

Halo??? Where does this guy come from??? Ferchrissakes, how is it not a crisis when the election result which is dubbed free & fair by him & his hogwash mates have yet to be released in their entirety?

Which part of NO CRISIS applies to members of the opposition being beaten & killed because of their right to vote for the opposition of a dictator, who happens to be part of his hogwash crew?

And which part of NO CRISIS makes up for the anarchy taking place in Zim due to "free & fair " elections??? 

Mxiiim Thabo man! Mxiiim! 

I will remember him as a hypocrite...finish & klaar!

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 05:28

"...who on earth gets pregnant 3 times a year or gives birth 5 times a year? Hayi bo!" 
LMAO @ Toxic, leave Comrade Best Achiever alone, this was just a figurative not literal example of how the whole mali yeqolo business has gone of hand, for some people that R200 (or is it more now???) is the world to them, bladdy ignorant if u ask me!!!! Though on the flip side other parents/gaurdians do put that money to good use.

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:31

any direct contact with them criminals should result into killing field nje qha.
LOL

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 05:35

Nah nah nah, comrade Best-Achiever: ORDER!! Let's not exaggerate and lets not allow our emotions to get in the way of logic...who on earth gets pregnant 3 times a year or gives birth 5 times a year? Hayi bo!

@Toxic .... that is what is happening in our country everything is exaggerated .... i thought i mught as well ....LOL

but on a serios note Toxic these 12 year old.... nci nci nci

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:36

Halo??? Where does this guy come from??? Ferchrissakes, how is it not a crisis when the election result which is dubbed free & fair by him & his hogwash mates have yet to be released in their entirety? 

uThabo was referring to the BEFORE events leading to the elections......that the opposition was allowed to campaign, to hold mass meetings (or whatever those things are where people gather in a stadium) and to mobilise its supporters-without victimisation.

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 05:37

who on earth gets pregnant 3 times a year or gives birth 5 times a year? Hayi bo!"

@Toxic ... i was bound to talk like that ... SARS is taxing me like im the only one working in the whole universe ... and some people are just saying  "if i can have 3 kids, i'll earn R600.00 from April"

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:40

but on a serios note Toxic these 12 year old.... nci nci nci

I hear you man-so much is cause for frustration..the taxes we pay contributin to the cushy lifestyle in prison notwithstanding...

Desired
21 Apr 2008 05:42

To quote Justice Malala: I am a great fan of President Thabo Mbeki - if you leave out his views on Aids, his protection of Jackie Selebi, his support for Robert Mugabe, his adoption of race politics, his predilection for Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, his attempt to grab a third term, and so forth......

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 05:43

@Toxic ... i was bound to talk like that ... SARS is taxing me like im the only one working in the whole universe ... and some people are just saying "if i can have 3 kids, i'll earn R600.00 from April"

And the thing is one can't do much on a budget of R600 for just ONE child!!!!! How stupid can people be mara?? We get taxed and don't even get refunded-if anything we must pay back the tax man...WTF?!

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 05:50

And the thing is one can't do much on a budget of R600 for just ONE child!!!!! 
 
@Toxic

and they only realise that when they get the third child that R600.00 is not enough and they try the 4th one ... thinking R800.00 will be much better and the list goes on .... *nodding my head*

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 05:52

To quote Justice Malala: I am a great fan of President Thabo Mbeki - if you leave out his views on Aids, his protection of Jackie Selebi, his support for Robert Mugabe, his adoption of race politics, his predilection for Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, his attempt to grab a third term, and so forth......

LOLOLOLOL! Good one Desired!

blk sunshine
21 Apr 2008 05:53

Mbeki was toking abt the elections prior to Uncle Bob gng psycho on our asses and not realising the results....Yes ppl shud try elevate the crap tht is gng dwn in Zim, but Zim is not the 10th province in S.A. Its not just South Africa's problem, its a international problem.

@Tox, maybe the reason they support uMugabe is coz during th estruggle, icomrades from SA went to hide and do undrground work in places such as Zimbabwe.

The economy thing, u cant blame interest hikes and the likes on Thabo purly. things like this are bound to happen, its how th eecnomy functions, brwad will not be R4 forever.

blk sunshine
21 Apr 2008 05:53

Mbeki was toking abt the elections prior to Uncle Bob gng psycho on our asses and not realising the results....Yes ppl shud try elevate the crap tht is gng dwn in Zim, but Zim is not the 10th province in S.A. Its not just South Africa's problem, its a international problem.

@Tox, maybe the reason they support uMugabe is coz during th estruggle, icomrades from SA went to hide and do undrground work in places such as Zimbabwe.

The economy thing, u cant blame interest hikes and the likes on Thabo purly. things like this are bound to happen, its how th eecnomy functions, bread will not be R4 forever.

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 06:01

Yes ppl shud try elevate the crap tht is gng dwn in Zim, but Zim is not the 10th province in S.A.

True!!

and they only realise that when they get the third child that R600.00 is not enough and they try the 4th one ... thinking R800.00 will be much better and the list goes on .... *nodding my head*

LOLOLOLOL!!!! Yes, then they go and prostitute themselves cause Thabo is not giving them work!

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 06:04

"@Tox, maybe the reason they support uMugabe is coz during th estruggle, icomrades from SA went to hide and do undrground work in places such as Zimbabwe."
At blk sunshine, struggle my A$$.

blk sunshine
21 Apr 2008 06:07

lol.hey was just a suggestion. We all need a reason to understand the madness. Wat i dnt undastand is all the poor ppl that support him

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 06:12

@Tox ...LOLOLOLOL!!!! Yes, then they go and prostitute themselves cause Thabo is not giving them work!

LOL ... and before we know it that'll also be a legaly profession with payslips everymonth end if not already ... you know that salary + commission kinda job and maybe its gonna be some department od ntoni ntoni in gorvenment  ... eish

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 06:14

LOLOLOLOL!!!! Yes, then they go and prostitute themselves cause Thabo is not giving them work!

ORDER Comrade TOX!!!...ORDER PLEEAAASSEEE!!!

Am not condoning prostitution, however as unfortunate as it is, there are many women out there who find themselves in a reality of no qualifications & no job however diligent they try to source out respectable jobs to gain an income.

And sadly for many (not all) prostitution becomes a last resort due to many socio economic factors. SAD reality...but ohhh so true for many women trying to survive.

 

Stunned
21 Apr 2008 06:16

Hey peeps m new, 've been a silent blogger for quite a while n i couldn't just sit n be quiet on this article....

1stly - u have every right to feel the way u feel abt My Prez... he is not to blame for the problems the Zim's are facing, the pple of Zim still want Mogabe as their Prez (saw the attendance on their freedom day)

The SADC said nothing abt Zim this weekend but u still blame Thabo.

He's done a lot for the African continet....

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 06:19

Stunned: <<He's done a lot for the African continet....>>Now I (I repeat, I) am STUNNED!! Please please remind me what exactly Mr Prez has done that I can be proud of, where I am sitting I feel desired has a point...

<<To quote Justice Malala: I am a great fan of President Thabo Mbeki - if you leave out his views on Aids, his protection of Jackie Selebi, his support for Robert Mugabe, his adoption of race politics, his predilection for Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, his attempt to grab a third term, and so forth......>> 

Miss K
21 Apr 2008 06:19

I think Comrade Bob has some hold on Thabo and the other puppets. Coz how do u explain their loyalty to that monster?? Mbeki is playing it safe, shu he dare turn against Bob then the shyt will hit the fan i tell u! Bob is blackmailing him; i know its crazy but thats the only thing that makes sense otherwise how do u explain Thabo's stupidity he???

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 06:20

Oh! Stunned, welcome and thank you for your valuable comments.

Stunned
21 Apr 2008 06:23

To name 1, he brought peace to the Kenyans when no1 knew how to resolve the war that was happening there... will be back with more, hang in there.

Miss K
21 Apr 2008 06:24

And can some1 pass my suggestion to Tsvangarai(sp). Donate a couple of millions to Al-Qaeda and see if Bob makes it to 2009!

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 06:26

Stunned!....now I'm Stunned! Peace you say?

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 06:27

Welcome to TVSA Stunned, what an appropriate username, as from where I am sitting ur comments do leave me STUNNED!!!!!!

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 06:27

Miss K: <<And can some1 pass my suggestion to Tsvangarai(sp). Donate a couple of millions to Al-Qaeda and see if Bob makes it to 2009!>>You are my hero today! 

Stunned: <<To name 1, he brought peace to the Kenyans when no1 knew how to resolve the war that was happening there... will be back with more, hang in there.>> thank you and Good luck, dear. I wait patiently...

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 06:29

Miss K..maybe hey!

Preshiii.........erm....uhhmmm.....eish, mara why can't they sell vegetables or sweets or clean the streets or sell cans/bottles/boxes (the recycling thing) mara yeh??

Pinkpoodle
21 Apr 2008 06:29

Here's my two cents worth 

To begin with whats happening in Zim happened to Most parts of Sourthen Africa, There was a civil war in Angola for dont know how long, 
Mozambique . the same goes they dont even use their own currency anymore 
Zambia same situation but bottom line is South Africa can prevent this happening to them by taking action before its too late mismanagement of the Economy by the Big People in power, they see it coming but do nothing. 
If Mbeki continues with this support for Bob the world Cup will be taken from South Africa and Australia so what happens to all the thousands of rands used for the preps, inflation will shoot up and once interest rates start hiking then there is no going back, Mbeki wants to Kill SA before he leaves the throne so the next person will have nothing to Rule why do you think he wanted to stay in Power( he is just another Bob). Yes Zim is not another Province in SA but if the international community is looking on SA to do something then Zim's problems are going to spill over SA .

Miss K
21 Apr 2008 06:34

Zim's problems are going to spill over SA ....they have already! Just go to Joburg down town if u want proof!

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 06:34

Mina the only thing that comes to mind is Thabo Mbeki's education trust for top achievers......good luck Stunned!

belz
21 Apr 2008 06:48

Welcome Stunned, ungistunnile streight. i dont understand when you say people of Zimbabwe love Mugabe, because they were celebrating freedom day???????????/WTF??? Celebrating freedom does not mean people like Mugabe, so whachusaying is you celebrate all these freedom days here in SA, the reason for that is coz you like Mbeki, caamaan man.

realist
21 Apr 2008 06:48

TM is good at being  emotionless about anything.

Best-Achiever
21 Apr 2008 06:55

Thatha ... realist ...LOL

maddie
21 Apr 2008 07:04

our facts/information is based on what we see on TV and read in the newspapers and basically i dont trust the media, they always twist stories to sell more and get attention.

if Mbeki says something, they'll twist it, if Manto-Tshabalala says something they'll still twist, i dont think our leaders are that stupid people.

thinLine
21 Apr 2008 07:11

Maddie u should be the next Prez... u r spot on.

Shadow
21 Apr 2008 07:14

I just don't understand why Zimbabwe ordered arms from China (Apparently the ship left South African shores to Zim on friday)....Do they want to start a fullfledged war or whaaat?

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 07:18

didn't they say the ship left without offloading Shadow???

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 07:18

maddie: <<i dont think our leaders are that stupid people.>>Need we list how their stupidity has impacted on our lives? without the media even reporting on such? I tend to disagree with you on your confidence on their stupidity!

- How much is basic food necessities at this point? how much is petrol?
- How much is medical care in our country and the state of our hospitals? Did you read Preshiii's experience when her brother was in hospital and my own personal experience when I was in hospital about 3 weeks ago? 
- How is Selebi getting paid his salary while he is on gardening leave? 
- Why is the country left in the dark, at least 4 hours on almsost a daily basis, when government was told there would be a shortage of electricity unless more power stations were built by 2007? why are businesses closing down left, right an center because of revenue loss due to power cuts?
-  How many children are having babies to get grants? 
- How many people have been robbed, raped and completely been horrified when they were attacked for a piece of furniture? how many people have had to bury their children and parents who died senseless deaths because poverty is being used as an excuse?
- How many people have died on our roads because of road sign visibility or the lines on the road do not exist but some government tender and our toll gate fees are paid each month for road maintenance?
-

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 07:21

i dont think our leaders are that stupid people. 

Really Maddie?

 Not even Bob whose country speaks for his intelligence?

Not even Zuma? My shower, my baby oil, my kanga Zuma?

Not even T-bose: my there's no crisis when approached by Eskom coupla years ago to fix what could have prevented the need to laodshed now?

Not even Ms Ntoni Ntoni whose name escapes my mind whose famously known for..."you need to sleep early so that you can be clever" statements???




Segololo
21 Apr 2008 07:21

All I see (without the media exaggeration) is all the ministers waistlines growing big! Come to think of it, they should also be entered on phat joes quest to get pics of police officers that are simply OBESE!!

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 07:26

..Not even Manto who stuck by her beetroot diet and witholding ARV's when people were dying of AIDS-related illnesses daily?
..Not even those YouthLeague leaders who were displaying their arses for all to see?
..Not even Govt dept's like Social Development/ Health/Housing not utilising all their alloted budgets?

*jumpin on the bandwagon peeps*

Shadow
21 Apr 2008 07:26

@Toxic...Oops...yep, the court barred its cargo. I still dont get why they ordered it in the first place. Eishh....i've completely given up on ever gettin' Zim's full presidential results. Why would it take them bloody frickin' weeks...Ogh!!

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 07:29

Let's not get sidetracked.......isn't this abt T-bose and Mugabe? Or are we blaming everything that's not right on him?

Simmone
21 Apr 2008 07:30

@ Stunned. Darling before you post your research, just check your facts. Peace in Kenya? go google again.

People love in Zimbabwe love Mugabe, nhe my love. To give you one example, google a Zimbwabean award winning journalist Brian Chikwava, read one of his articles, then come back at tell me how many people love Robert Mugabe.

Tshd21
21 Apr 2008 07:32

Exactly how do people expect Thabo Mbeki to help Zimbabwe if re na le di problems tsa rona which he can't even solve mo SA? eg... Eskom, Crime, Hiv/AIDS, Unemployment etc... By saying YES, THERE IS A CRISIS IN ZIMBABWE??

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 07:34

"Come to think of it, they should also be entered on phat joes quest to get pics of police officers that are simply OBESE!!"
Most of the police officers are so fat they can't even chase a 10 year old child, let alone a fully grown criminal like Annias Mathe.

"you need to sleep early so that you can be clever" - now where is the intelligence in that?

SilverFox
21 Apr 2008 07:35

Hey guys, i'm also new to this blogging thing, 2 reasons:

1. always been shy to xpress my opinion on such an open forum, and
2. most topics are of HG standards, which makes it even more difficult if one has nothing of value to contribute.

Anyway, this is one topic that i'm very passionate about, and i couldn't let it die without saying something. I have gone through all the responses to Sego's article and we all seem to agree - with the exception of the Stunned one - that he has not done anything to resolve the Zimbabwe issue, however, this does not in anyway erase any of the hardwork he has done in the past (even before he was president). Now don't get me wrong, YES he has failed the Zim people, but please do not apportion the entire blame on him!!!!! Always remember that he was dealing with a very delicate situation.
1. On one hand he was faced with a dictator on the brink of madness (Remember Idi Amin???),
2. On the same hand he has the "war veterans" that are ready to do anything Mugabe tells them,
3. Still on the same hand, he has some of the people blowing his horn and voting for him (willingly or forcefully).
4. Then on the Other hand you have Morgan and the MDC.

Clearly the scales were tipped and obviously only one man will come out the "winner". T-Boss couldn't have known all the answers to all these problems.

Dunno, just my two cents ........

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 07:36

Tshd21<<Exactly how do people expect Thabo Mbeki to help Zimbabwe if re na le di problems tsa rona which he can't even solve mo SA? eg... Eskom, Crime, Hiv/AIDS, Unemployment etc... By saying YES, THERE IS A CRISIS IN ZIMBABWE?? >> Not just saying something but by taking a stand! We are gatvol with his nonsense here in Msanzi but we still have a chance to vote in the next election and I seriously doubt he would have been voted for a 3rd term...

Lex
21 Apr 2008 07:38

@ Sego - AND I am sitting under a fig tree back home in Bophutatswana. o tlile go swabela Bop wena,ke legae la me leo.LOL

STUNNED wena u r just stunning that's all I can say.I wonder how much TM is paying you...

Pinkpoodle
21 Apr 2008 07:39

@Stunned  welcome to the fire 

I am stunned by your comments... If the people of Zim Loved Mugabe would they have voted him out????????????? Why do you think their results are not out  dah its because the old bally lost and he is trying to hold on to power no matter what if he had won i bet you the Zim results would have been announced the very next day.
Those people are tired imagine not having bread, milk and basics why do you think there are hundreds of them everyday at park station loaded with groceries and stuff comeon dont be so daft

lepogo
21 Apr 2008 07:41

This is very stimulating and very straight forward-but I need to direct you to a few pointers that displlays reality without any anger
1. Mbeki IS NOT an electrician or even remotely informed when it comes to Electrical matters-ministers make their decisions based on the reports they recive from the experts they employ in teir offices-who are mostly white and very experienced in their field of expertise-it is folly to think that Thibos was busy puffing away ignorantly at the suggestion that more Electrical plants need to be built.
2.The Zimbabwean situation needs common sense and straight thinking-whether you like it or not Bob is still in power,and he wants to be negotiated with from a position of power-not through newspapers and public pronouncements-which is what the ever fumbling and dumb Morgan has been doing.You just cant,publicly,ask Thabo to vacate his mandate just because he is not siding with you.....All because Bob wants to feel important and he wants to "vacate",not to be forced outta power.

Granted,most of politicians arnt the best of human beings around,but it takes years and years of winning support and confidence to get where most of these fumbling people are at.

And just to make you think harder,there are more than 3million Zimbos in Mzantsi,and it is reported only less than 500 000v went back to vote.If Morgan wants Mzantsi to help,maybe,just maybe,Zimbos need to seriously think if they are willing to do something for themselves first.

One luv

Toxic
21 Apr 2008 07:44

Yeah Shadow....i don't either. Here's what i think:

The majority of people that are loyal to Mugabe are loyal cause he is regarded the hero that saved Zim from British rule.
When they were "cleansing" Zim of white people and taking/invading their farms, these people benefittted from the invasions.
Now, all of a blue occassion, MDC WINS the presidential votes and this is something Mugabe was certain would never happen. Plus added to this are rumours that Tsvangirai's campaign was funded by the British or Blair or Brown (whoever is in Mugabe's mind at the time he utters his famous profanities) and Mugabe believes that the MDC bribed people to get votes.
Mugabe and his supporters are afraid that when the MDC gains the presidential post, all white people will flock back to Zim, claim their land back (thus his statements on people guarding the farms with their lives!) and the black masses will end up with nothing-like before.

Now i wonder about the documents in Mugabe's possession and i wonder abt Tsvangirai's self-imposed exile (if it is that cause i don't understand why Zim wants him behind bars) and i also wonder abt the MDC's "reluctance" against a ballot-recount-i mean if he's sure he's won, why should he have a problem with it?

Basically, i think Mugabe would be happy with anyone other than Morgan/MDC/Mukoni winning the presidential elections but what other opponents were there? Is that Mbeki's fault as well?

Tshd21
21 Apr 2008 07:44

And what is that "stand" going to solve again Sego? That he acknowledges what we all know by now.... which is that Zimbabwe is in crisis. And then what? The situation is going to change? It's just waiting for Mbeki to acknowledge it? 

Nonny
21 Apr 2008 07:45

"@ Stunned. Darling before you post your research, just check your facts. Peace in Kenya? go google again."
Dankie Simmone - well said, and feel at home Stunned, don't be too STUNNED, we love u and this is TVSA spreading love at it's best..........LOL

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 07:46

welcome, Silverfox... The people of this country voted him into power expecting him to ensure our safety, keep our flag flying high - basically grow us to what America believes they are because of his Economic intelligence - but it has all gone down the drain. He chose the cabinet misnisters whom always seem to show their stupidity and ignorance to the people they are a supposed to serve. Their arrogance seem to make them think that they will forever be part of cabinet and if alles fails they will not be impacted by what will happen to this country... damn cheek!

Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 07:57

People in Zimbabwe love Mugabe.

There's a difference between love & fear.


Preshiii
21 Apr 2008 08:00

...oh...and there's a difference between reverential fear (honour & respect) and paralysing fear (self-explanatory)

Sego, thanks for a great article...tshayela time...I'm out!

Miss K
21 Apr 2008 08:02

Yes Thabo is not an electrician and not a doctor BUT he appointed those ministers who are clearly failing in their duties. He has the power to fire them and appoint deserving people. Why is Manto Beetroot Shabalala still a minister? Just becoz they were comrades together? Nxi!!

jazzyree
21 Apr 2008 08:02

Interesting one here  Sego

Politics has always been a dirty game and we will never understand it ...
Maybe RM has something on TM for him to support or maybe they both share a hatred for Whites because RM believes if Tshangarai gets in power then Zim will be recolonised again. Maybe we all grew up in a rainbow nation and its hard for these old ballies to forgive and forget what they went through during the struggle but at the end of the day it should be about the people and accepting change.

Iam not supporting TM but we've all mad wrong decisions now and again he probably didnt think when he said there was no crisis and he could be regretting saying those words , but hey the dude has said plenty wrong statements..............

Simmone
21 Apr 2008 08:10

@ Lepogo. If that wasn’t the case then Tboz would have spared himself the humiliation and not offered Eskom a public apology on live television for government’s failure to heed Eskom’s call for additional power stations which happened a decade ago.

Secondly, I didn’t vote for Manto or Trevor Manuel or any other Minister for that case, I voted for Thabo Mbeki to be responsible for my needs and my tax money. For me the buck stops with him. If his cabinet cannot do what’s best for me then I have a right to target him and he should vent his anger at the people he made responsible for my well-being.

Segololo
21 Apr 2008 08:18

lepogo: I am a manager. I manage people. I consider myself a leader. The one thing I learned, the hard way, with managing is when my team messes up, my a$$ is on the line.  When I hire someone to work in my team, I entrust them with a piece of my job. When I employ people that do not deliver, due to no fault of mine or the company but their lazyness and lack of performance, I have no choice but to ensure they ship up or out! 

I am the spokesperson for the team when they mess up or not. If my team is enstrusted by my company to purchase, develop, configure, customize and support a server that will increase my company client base and bring about more revenue and they fail - I have to give valid reasons for our inability to deliver.

I have to ensure that what my company CTO deems a priority for my team to deliver is prioritised.

To my, simple mind and some experience, presidency is a similar role.  

Mbeki does not need to be an electrician or a media puppet to deliver. He needs to be a leader! He needs to prioritise things that are critical to the people of this country, he needs to ensure those people that fall within his team deliver what is critical and a priority to the people that voted for him to lead them. He is the spokesperson for his team and government. We, the citizens, of this  country rely on him to ensure our country gets to where it needs to be. When you are provided a white paper similar to what Eskom provided to government in 1996 that we will need government to invest on more power generators as we risk losing power in 2007 - he needed to ensure this is priority and he didn't! Now people are losing their jobs because of his lack of prioritising.

When 3 million Zim nationals are requesting refuge in your country - some are tortured and killed by south africans because of "jobs or women" you need to ensure that those people feel safe in your country or attempt a way that will ensure that they will feel safe in their own country. You don't disregard the struggles of both the people and the foreigners and blame them for their situation. When apartheid was at it's peak, presidents and leades took a stand! They did not sit by and hold hands with the oppressors - they negotiated and reasoned! 

jazzyree
21 Apr 2008 08:29

@ segololo .... wow i salute you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well said

Msoe
21 Apr 2008 08:30

Mugabe is doing excatly what these guys talked about while they were still in exile, "TO MAKE BOERS LEAVE THE COUNTRY IF EVER THEY TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRIES". So that is why uthola ukuthi uMbeki is finding it difficult to be against Mugabe because uMugabe uvele amtshele ezikabhoqo athi hey wena we spoke and agreed on what i am doing right now eZim.

So I am not saying that uMugabe is right but am saying ukuthi ther is a big chance that SA will also fall into disarray like most African countries because its the same people, same ideas and same ways of ruling that governs the people that were in that meeting long time ago.

Only uMandela wasnt there, that is why when he took over he didnt kick out Afrikaaners from SA because he could see that if he does that kukhona okungeke kuhambe kahle. Keeping in mind that Afrikaaners are the only people who can run and maintain izinto ezibhekene namaplazi, abaziyo ukuthi isithelo uma sesinje kumele sifakwe ini. Im not saying that other cultures are incapable but sometimes truth needs to be faces even if it hurts.

spice
21 Apr 2008 08:36

FORGIME MABLOGGAZ BUT I HAVE A MESSAGE TO SEGO ,GAL GO TO HOTTEST GOSSIP THERE'S SOME *bleep!* GOING DOWN ON OPRAH I THINK YOULL'' BE INTERESTED IN

Sdudla
21 Apr 2008 10:37

Hi guys I'm new to this and I suspect that most people in Mzansi have gone home but I just had to give my 10 cents worth anyway.. 
Our chief cannot really do much about Zim because it is after all a sovereign country and the mandate that was given to him to mediate in that country was not  really designed to give him much room to manouvre. Mina, I blame the Zimbabweans who are all over the world  (most of them living in comfort) who are not prepared to go back to their country to fight for their liberation. Yet they have the gumption to blame Thabo Mbeki for their woes! Kanti whose country is burning? 

I also blame the SADC leaders for making Zim a Mbeki problem? If that isn't cowardice, then I don't know what is. I think they set the man up for failure knowing that his weaknesses (pride, stubbornness, pig-headedness etc.) would result in the disaster that is the Zim situation. Mina ngithi the zimbabweans should follow the same recipe that was used by the Angolans, the Congolose and Nigerians to get rid of Savimbi, Kabila Snr and Abacha. Ngiyaxolisa ngokulanda mabloggers but I specialise in that.

Sdudla
21 Apr 2008 10:41

Oh, but before the Zimbos start getting creative about how they can permanetly deal with Uncle Bob, they must first make sure that they have an ideal candidate to take over ngoba uTsvangirai, hhayi bandla ngiyabonga. Is'duphunga sangempela phela lesiya.

Floh
21 Apr 2008 18:25



Lepogo! Lepogo! Lepogo! Thank you very much about your views they make a lot of sense...........

You know I've been telling all those who are concerned with Zim..... that if you want change, you act, you don't hide in Central Methodist making noise about how heartless Mugabe is, pull your stinking @$$ and go vote for change, you fight for change, nobody will do it for you, the millions of Zim who are here in SA, they should have made a big difference, there wouldn't be a need for a recount.


The bishop on Sunday prayed for them, and he told them that we love them, but again he put an emphasis on CHANGE, how important it is for them to stand for their country. Instead they had Flags in Noord taxi rank, am not sure if that was a voting station or what.

We've seen it all, and again if we want change in our country, we don't need to Vote for Msholozi and his party, vote for someone else..................but ke I wonder who will it be.

Floh
21 Apr 2008 18:25



Lepogo! Lepogo! Lepogo! Thank you very much about your views they make a lot of sense...........

You know I've been telling all those who are concerned with Zim..... that if you want change, you act, you don't hide in Central Methodist making noise about how heartless Mugabe is, pull your stinking @$$ and go vote for change, you fight for change, nobody will do it for you, the millions of Zim who are here in SA, they should have made a big difference, there wouldn't be a need for a recount.


The bishop on Sunday prayed for them, and he told them that we love them, but again he put an emphasis on CHANGE, how important it is for them to stand for their country. Instead they had Flags in Noord taxi rank, am not sure if that was a voting station or what.

We've seen it all, and again if we want change in our country, we don't need to Vote for Msholozi and his party, vote for someone else..................but ke I wonder who will it be.

Floh
21 Apr 2008 18:30


Are you sure that those ppl who were Celebrating Zim 28 yrs of independence were in love with Mugabe or they were there for FREE FOOD..............mind that pap is the serious issue.

I wonder if they are still buying the newspaper, I always complain with Sundaytimes it's damn expensive, but Star for $25 000 000 its 3 much.

Floh
21 Apr 2008 18:51


So when are they announcing the winner, seyenzakele intando kamugabe phela.

Yinindaba u Bush angamgudluli umgabe, because he is very good at that, look what happened to Saddam...........


maddie
22 Apr 2008 00:58

To my, simple mind and some experience, presidency is a similar role. 

I disagree with you Segololo on this one.

Remember this country is not run like a company, this is not USA.

Mbeki is definitely not a CEO. Remember people we have a history here.

You've got the NEC at Luthuli House telling the President what to do, ask JZ.

If the country was run like a company, maybe we will not have these problems we are currently facing, then Sego our President will do all the things u mentioned you do with your team.

I'll be back for more

Segololo
22 Apr 2008 02:09

I thought, thought, thought about this last night - I remained stunned! and Stunned, dear, I am still waiting for that list...

Maybe Mbeki didn't do anything about that Chinese ship because he actually wants to prove a point that when he went into that arms deal he knew a day would come when he would have to use them and he doesn't  want to miss an opportunity to. I am glad a sane south african priest got the courts to not allow the ship to offload when Mr prez did absolutely nothing!

Desired
22 Apr 2008 09:02

This article says it all-for me anyway.

http://free.financialmail.co.za/08/0418/front/ednote.htm

Dimago
22 Apr 2008 11:05

maybe Thabo knows something we don't...can't figure it out, but is it possible that a man of his caliber and intelligence could be so moronic? I don't know, I keep waiting for the penny to drop, I must say its taking a while...

lepogo
23 Apr 2008 04:13

@Sego,
Granted,Thabo is not showing any leadership at the moment,and he seems to know something that most of us dont know regarding Zim,BUT Zim is not our baby.Crime,ja,unemployment ja.

And the problem with our voting system is that we vote for a party list as deemed fit by the party-it has got nothing to do with us,hence theres such levels of people not held accountable,either in their capacity as private persons or minister,cos the seat and the portfolio are held by the party,not by the person.

And Zims weapons should also become their business.How the hell does it help that they enjoy our hospitality without mobilising and making more inroads into how to topple Bob.

Honestly,there are no similarities between Zim now and SA in the 80's.Less than 30000 people left,and they fought,believe you me,unfortunately Zimbos are too docile and have been paralysed by the Beggar syndrome to take their own bloody future in their own hands.

If only Senyaka was here to say the same things he did on Y this morning......


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