SOUTH AFRICA'S TV WEBSITE
SIGN IN SEARCH MENU
SOUTH AFRICA'S TV WEBSITE


Church scams revealed....


Church scams revealed

Written by AkaS from the blog Universal Church scams scams on 20 Mar 2009
Favourite this post


The Universal Church of the Kingdom of God the countrys fastest growing charismatic church is little more than a moneymaking scam say pastors who have been left to fend for themselves after making a fortune for the church. The unhappy pastors say that they were even forced to undergo vasectomies to prevent them having children so they would not carry around any baggage. 

Haybo I never heard in Bible saying a certain kind of people must not have children especially because theyre called by him. In book of Genesis it only tells t multiply 

Pastors and followers of the church UCKG are encouraged to surrender their wealth upon joining the church. Although they had reservations about the church they decided to break their silence after some of them were offloaded because of illhealth. 

When Pastor Michael Louw 49 joined the church 16 years ago his banker wife surrendered her car and her pension. When you join they tell you that pastors are not supposed to own anything not a house a car or even a bank account. I used to make money for them but today I am sleeping in a sleeping bag said Louw. 
Where is this coming from not in my bible. Christ became poor so that we may all be rich 2Corinth8:9

When people warned us that these Brazilians were here to make money we did not want to believe them. But now we know. They brainwashed us into believing that God would take care of us but when they kick us out we have nowhere to go he said. Congregations run as many as six services a day in which members are constantly exhorted to make donations. 

There is not a single service in which we are allowed to preach without asking for contributions said Louw. Sowetan recently visited the church in Brixton and in central Johannesburg. Different pastors continually emphasised the importance of giving the church money. Give in abundance and you will be blessed said one pastor. The congregation was then presented with Nedbank deposit slips to give to God. Prophet Paul Sibeko of the Soweto branch in Diepkloof said he made R6million in one campaign. 

When I was shot by intruders inside the church my leaders never asked what happened. All they asked was if I had made the target. Hmm God have mercy on these Leaders!

I replaced a pastor who was making R7000 a month in Mpumalanga. I ended up making R60000 a month. You are not allowed to make less than the previous amount said Sibeko who served the church for 13 years. Their disillusionment was echoed by George Ndionga 40 who quit as pastor last year after 11 years. My branch in Ebony Park used to make R90000 a month; in Springs I would make between R35000 and R45000. When I left they gave me a mere R6000 Ndionga said. What they do is unbiblical. Deuteronomy 15 says you may release a slave after he had served you for six years but you cant let him go empty handed. I got nothing. Its like I just came out of jail said Ndionga who gave up his business to join the church. 
Full Story: http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=963106



 Luk 6:38 Give and it will be given to you; good measure crushed down full and running over they will give to you. For in the same measure as you give it will be given to you again. So am not forced to give more than I cant give

CEV: Version 2Co 9:5 So I have decided to ask Titus and the others to spend some time with you before I arrive. This way they can arrange to collect the money you have promised. Then you will have the chance to give because you want to and not because you feel forced to. 

2Co 9:6 Remember this saying A few seeds make a small harvest but a lot of seeds make a big harvest. 2Co 9:7 Each of you must make up your own mind about how much to give. But dont feel sorry that you must give and dont feel that you are forced to give. God loves people who love to give. 

2Co 9:8 God can bless you with everything you need and you will always have more than enough to do all kinds of good things for others. 
This scripture says it all there is no force or threats attached when you are want to give or not .I dont want to go further than this but this must stop playing church and start serving God in the right way. Jesus is Coming back very soon...



199 Comments

AkaS
20 Mar 2009 14:12

I couldn't hold myself after seeing this article. This has been long overdue. I don't know this churches must or what.

Talk to me ppl

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 14:15

Yoooooooooooo!!!!!! let me re-read the article!

AkaS
20 Mar 2009 14:15

Stop Suffering, stop suffering that's their slogan.  How can ppl stop suffering while they tke everything from people?  In the name of GIVE ALL AND YOU'LL BE BLESSED!

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 14:19

oh my goodness

ms.tebby
20 Mar 2009 14:21

I dont know really what the church is becoming, the end is near.....siras.

ms.tebby
20 Mar 2009 14:23

amid all these things...nothing nullifies God..period.God remains supreme

monchooza
20 Mar 2009 14:31

Kudala ngisho...amacrook aphethe ama bible

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 14:32

ag maan everymorning at 6am on ETV , there's this annoying pastor of this church.  "Well my friend is a very good morning to u, drink this water and be blessed" they think if they pretend as if they drinking water will STOP thinking that they actually drink only Blood.

andi01
20 Mar 2009 14:34

I have been waiting for the day that this church will be exposed. i was a member for more than 5 years and believe me i never got any of the promised "blessings", that was bcoz i never offered more than 50c and never paid Tithes. I believe in giving allright, but let me rather take my R10 and buy bread for a homeless person, than give to a church that has pastors wearing designer suits. That Church is bad.

Sana Lwam
20 Mar 2009 14:34

Lawd have mercy. Umgwebo uyeza siras stru bob

andi01
20 Mar 2009 14:38

Some satanist once said that, they operates in so called "churches", they give members red cloths, telling them to put under their matress when they sleep so that they can be protected from the evil. The satansist went on to say, those cloths help them mark the people that belong to them, it has niks to do with the Lord, so people must watch out. I went to church the sunday following that incident, guess what the pastor said "take these cloth for (R5), put them under your matress, you will be protected from evil", from that day on, I never went to that church agaian.

Sana Lwam
20 Mar 2009 14:38

Eintlik wena Andi kudala uzibona izinto neh.

AkaS
20 Mar 2009 14:42

they give members red cloths, andi01 you're right there's this red cloth they stand with on the street and when u pass by they tell you cum & hold it I don't know is for what or what you gain after.

I wanted to comment further bt am rushing 2 meeting c u Monday

awelani
20 Mar 2009 14:55

OMW, is this real??

Sbam
20 Mar 2009 15:05

The first time i suspected that something was wrong, it was few years back, around easters and i came across one of their pamplet/invitation.  
They were inviting people to come to church and receive "a holy sehwasho" ( 4 da LOVE OF GOD IS EASTER, )  I mean instead of lifting Jesus on the cross or Christ ressurected o bitsetsa batho dihwasho (what r we Kereke or disangoma)

"Well my friend is a very good morning to u, drink this water and be blessed" 

I normally drink a cup of hot water around that time, but i make sure i drink it b4 dat prayer, i just don't want him to bless my water, i bless it myself.

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:08

LOL @ SBam

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:10

These people target South Africa, and Africa, bcoz they know we have faith in the Lord,  they would never go to the UK, bcoz they know, they'd be chased away faster than they can say "Well my friend is a very good morning to u, drink this water and be blessed"

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 15:17

they use to stand in the mornings here at the parade in  town with buckets full of water asking passers by to wash their hands as some form of cleansing or blessing and all these construction workers would line up shem. 

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:18

Ya i have heard about this churches scams. My cousin once told me that the pastor in sebokeng was saying that people who love God will give out R500 donations and up. 

meaning what exactly? that if you pay 5 bob you dont love God.

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 15:20

hahahahahaha!! @ Sbam, I am  too scared to drink water after 6am i wait at least untill 7am coz i had this thinking of what if my water turn to blood. 

Phikza
20 Mar 2009 15:20

Yho, Andi01...i've heard people who left the church saying nice things bout the church..ur actualy the first person othetha so bout them. Kodwa ke inoba bona they got blessings out of it

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:22

@Phikza- if its so great, why did they leave???

TheLady
20 Mar 2009 15:24

I remember asking what kind of church is UCKG-got this PM from a Lowie

The Lady...in the bible it says do not judge, only he (God) will judge us, I do go to Universal Church. And out of my whole 11 years that I have been attending it I have never in my life seen a dragon.... I don’t see you make a noise about the ZCC tea...

As someone said Universal Church is just like any other church, have you heard them sing Satan’s songs? for all I know they have helped a lot of people who where cursed.

If they can stand and preach about God being the jalousie god, why would they worship a dragon? Where did you want them to put the oil next to the door?

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:26

Hawu Pooky? shame poor constructors. but sometimes if you go there in faith that actually blessing will come, they will, it depends on how strong your faith is. 


Didnt i hear on some blog that isihwasho is water that is being prayed for at church?

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:29

have you heard them sing Satan’s songs?

Buhwaahahaha!!!

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 15:31

<<<@Phikza- if its so great, why did they leave???>>>
Good Question Andi01,  There's no smoke without a fire.

Sbam
20 Mar 2009 15:32

It's abt time people STOP using the name of the Lord to advance their own selfish desires.  We r living in the end times, people r hopeless/weary ( due to life's challenges & problems),  They come to church with a hope of receiving something better, and Jesus is their only Hope.  So the Custodian of God's things MUST start giving people God and stop taking advantage of their situations 

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:32

LMAO,, Satan has songs???

Phikza
20 Mar 2009 15:32

Hayi andazi Andy01...and i never realy asked them why.

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 15:35

<<<have you heard them sing Satan’s songs?>>
kwakwakwakwakwakwa!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheLady
20 Mar 2009 15:36

<<<have you heard them sing Satan’s songs?>> 

I don't even wanna know the lyrics to a Satan song...LOL

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:38

hey Awwwwwzzzz!!!

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:39

LOL Thelady!!!

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:40

parade in town with buckets full of water asking passers by to wash their hands as some form of cleansing or blessing ...they did the same thing to me last december,, was in down town jozi, passing next to their church, then this old man handed me a piece of paper which i took cos he was harassing me, then he called me to the hall to be prayed for, i refused, so he sed, then just come and wash your hands coz u touched the paper i gave you, i was like WTF, neway i went to wash my hands, they had a bowl on top of a table hwich was on a stoep, so mina not wanting to get inside the church, i wanted to wash my hands while standing on the pavement, mara the dude said "NO", u have to be stanind on the stoep, i ended up getting on that stoep, he washed my hands, and mumbling somethings @ the same time...I was so freak out, i kept checking my hands on my way home,, when i got home, i had few minutes with Dettol, Protex&Dettol..

k, this is long..sorry,lol

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:40

Heloo Cordellia,,lol

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 15:41

if its true what is said about this church then the devil aint resting, he is busy for sure and using every angle possible to claim the weak and blind

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:41

....Dettol,Protex & Domestos......

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 15:45

and Dettol  is gonna save you from usathane awelani  LOL (note: that is if  it's what they really practice)

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:46

Pooky,, didnt know what else to do,, LOL

TheLady
20 Mar 2009 15:47

Uzogcina ukuhamba uthatha nje awe LOL...

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 15:48

Domestos......???????? hahahahahha!!!!!

JadaPinkett
20 Mar 2009 15:50

Haleluya! Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!God bless this blog................Cheers My Lord!!!!!!!!!!!

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:51

I don't even wanna know the lyrics to a Satan song...- ROTFLMAOL, me neither TheLady

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:51

TL,, sengi gcinile already sisi, i dont take pamphlets from any1 anymore,,i give them <<current>>>

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:51

Triple lol Awelani!! Domestos???? im sure your hands were smelling bad after that!!lol

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 15:51

Shuga Babe.....because kaloku it kills all known germs DEAD, so she wanted to make 110% sure ususe konke okumdaka hehhehheheh........Awelani at least you know better now and know what to do in such cases...

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:52

I dont trust that Church, period!!!!, if I am wrong, God please forgive me.

nice
20 Mar 2009 15:54

O nkosi, things that people do to enrich themselves are horrifying.

Generosity Encouraged
6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and
whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
7Each of you should give
what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion,

for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to bless you abundantly,
so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will
abound in every good work. 

All we can now pray for is that those givers wo gave cheerfully will be enriched, and God punish those that use his name in vain and to enrich themselves severely

awelani
20 Mar 2009 15:55

because kaloku it kills all known germs DEAD...yes it daz, even Satan's germs, LOL

Cody,u have no idea, i tried spraying body spray as my hand lotion wasnt helping, mara it helpd shem,lol

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:55

ya lero we will take all these things because we are afraid of being bewitched. Nna they gave me a white cloth with some oil once. they said it is holy oil. eish lerona we are so obsessed with boloyi and this stupid victim mentality we have. not that there is no boloi but atleast now i know better. i can protect myself now.

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:55

it depends on how strong your faith is. - people need to understand this, no church or pastor can save you, only your faith will. "if you believe that Jesus Christ is the lord" you shall be saved. nathi man we have soo little faith tahts why this Brazilians just come and take over, look at our soccer squad, one brazilian afetr that other comes and reap all these millions while poor (Igesund and Clive Barker, Jomoso, some of our good coaches) starve in Soweto, mnximmmmmm

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 15:56

people say, if u go to hat church and give them at least R1000, they will pray for u and all you debts, clothing stores account, furniture shops etc. will be paid off .

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:57

well God will protect me if i ask him to. atleast

TheLady
20 Mar 2009 15:58

My friend's sister went there and they told her to draw a house she wishes to live in-that was more than 10 years ago...she stil stays ku 4 room wakubo with her sisters.

Cody
20 Mar 2009 15:59

yes andi that is true. only their faith in God will protect them.

andi01
20 Mar 2009 15:59

The Tithe ke is the 10% of your hard earned cash, you must donate it to teh church evey monthy, and you will get "too much blessings that you will not have room enough for", nigga please, these people quote the bible just to have their own way.

Cody
20 Mar 2009 16:00

LOL Thelady, they wanted her to attract it in "the secret's" style

andi01
20 Mar 2009 16:01

My friend's sister went there and they told her to draw a house she wishes to live in-that was more than 10 years ago...she stil stays ku 4 room wakubo with her sisters.LOL- My half-brother has been going there for almost twenty years, he cant even pray properly, he cant even quote the bible, he doesnt pray before going to bed, he doesnt bless his food, kanti what does the church teaches. instead he has grown more evil, he despises his family, he is the most evil person I have ever came across, and he goes to church every sunday, HALLELLUYAH,

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 16:02

((people need to understand this, no church or pastor can save you, only your faith will. "if you believe that Jesus Christ is the lord" you shall be saved.)

AMEN! Andi01, the sooner we realize that the better!!

Ngisondela kuwe Thixo wami♫
♫I come to u my lord♫. 
♫not to my Bishop, not to my Pastor, not to the Particuler church but i come♫

awelani
20 Mar 2009 16:02

LMAO @ TL,,,

Sbam
20 Mar 2009 16:04

people say, if u go to hat church and give them at least R1000, they will pray for u and all you debts, clothing stores account, furniture shops etc. will be paid off .

Bathong, is this making Biblical sense, i mean should we not pay those we owe what is due to them, "Owe nobody anything except love", is not  what the scipture says.  Now if we r going to owe people and @ da end don't pay them, what does that make us?  "Holy criminals(WHAT?)" & r we not serving a JUST God!!!!
Something is wrong mona maan!!!!!

Pooky
20 Mar 2009 16:05

nasemaphupheni cody....its remarkable how i can even  call out His name in the middle of a bad dream, fighting battles with prayer and coming out victorious...He is wonderful and powerful indeed.

Cody
20 Mar 2009 16:07

Yep i agree 100% with the faith thing, just like if you are asking a pastor to pray for you. if you believe that by him praying for you, you will overcome whatever is troubling you, then it will happen, no matter how imperfect the pastor is,just because you believed and had faith that God will grant him the wisdom and strength to help you then your faith e tla go pholosa.

Cody
20 Mar 2009 16:11

nasemaphupheni cody....its remarkable how i can even call out His name in the middle of a bad dream

Yah Pooky it's amazing neh? I was having a bad dream the other day, then i said the lords prayer in my sleep. Then i woke up after saying Amen. powerful i tell ya!



Pooky
20 Mar 2009 16:19

....and on that note ladies and gents allow me to love and leave you, wishing you a blessed weekend, till monday yall chawuuuuuu ...love ya

Shuga babe
20 Mar 2009 16:23

That makes the two of us Pooky.
Plz go to church on Sunday!
Ciau!!!

ms.tebby
20 Mar 2009 16:36

people say, if u go to hat church and give them at least R1000, they will pray for u and all you debts, clothing stores account, furniture shops etc. will be paid off >>>>lyrics in satan's songs..who pays the debts? NO NO NO

Lela
20 Mar 2009 16:39

LOL @ SB quoting moruti Keke.

DJ Why why
20 Mar 2009 18:31

Sho sho! all am saying is that kulaa cawe esp, 'brain washing" s something they are good at. i know people that g there are really good at tithing. I have concerns there seems to be a trend with the others that i know....maybe the effects of brainwashing ne....


My church, they ask for money too (a different speaker/pastor too). But they have said that God's mercy and love is free, you do nt have to give pamphlets and freaking knok on people's doors to earn it.

Sobza
20 Mar 2009 18:35

I've heard a lot of stories about UCKG, I don't trust anything about it.

I don’t see you make a noise about the ZCC tea... 

ZCC, IPCC zenzinye icawa zesiphiri....let me not say anything......warning stay as far away from these churches......if I had time I would tell you about the experience my friend had with ZCC pastors.

Sana Lwam
20 Mar 2009 19:28

We have the whole weekend Sobza, pls give us the juice before Sunday

pelepele
20 Mar 2009 22:08

Hi guys

I feel very pi$$sed off with this topic becuase when my parents were very broke and had been forced to relocate for safety  during the IFP vs ANC days they turned to UCKG for comfort. These were the days when the church was relatively new in SA. I also remember attending this church how they always had envelopes for people to make donations and they had different levels of donation a R5 one, a R10, etc and the more you gave the more you were supposedly going to get blessed. My jobless parents were being promised to get jobs very soon if they continued at UCKG. Of course those jobs never materialised and 15 years later (years those devils have been here for that long) they are both still unemployed.

It is time for humanity to stop being enslaved by religion, religion is the oldest money-making scheme, however man was here long before the religion fad and will still be here when religion goes out of fashion. If you think a guy named Jesus or Mohammed who was supposedly living 2000 years ago, whom you don't even have proof that he was ever alive,  is going to come back to save you then you are stupid and you deserve to be fleeced by opportunist preachers and churches. As for immaculate conception and Adam and Eve guys plz wake up and smell the coffee. The main function of religion back in the days was to keep society in line by instilling a sense of fear that any wrong doing would be punished by God. We are far too evolved to fall for this crap these days

Lela
21 Mar 2009 01:18

Hayi ke ngoku Pelepele uyaphazama kuleyesbini iparagraph,please speak for yourself don't try and brainwash us,thina sisakholwa kaloku noba singatsotswa kangakanani.

youngtodie
23 Mar 2009 09:48

guys , i have to say i was very disapointed to read about this  aticle about the UCKG ,i'm not a member but i used to this church .I agree when they say in each n every service they request money.The way they put it imake one understand why must i give the money.Well good things had happened while i was still in this church.I was told by the doctors that i will have to deliver my baby in hospital due to the fact of low blood presssure.I  talk with on eof the pastors about this as i hate going to hospital ,after He had pray for me 2wks later i deliverd a healthy baby@ home.

Even if i have to say that few  months after that i lost my angels and people  told me is b'cos i was going 2 dat church.As a christian i din't belive dat as even i don't.So guys whether this  story is true or not ,the fact to me is it did help me,spirutually and since i've been visiting the church i have grown spiritually.

i will be dissapointed if the story is really true.

SLICKER
23 Mar 2009 14:33

To all of you people who have bee critisizing UCKG you will be judge by God.For all this crucification and accusation are mentioned in the holy book. jesus said bless you are persecutate and hated because of the love of me. People I asked you to come with facts and stop this baseless accusations.

andi01
23 Mar 2009 14:37

@Slicker- and you will also be judged by teh Lord for judging us.

AkaS
23 Mar 2009 14:44

SLICKER
23 Mar 2009 16:02

Andi and others you people are talking about things you don't have basis on them. You cannot be fooled and you know some of the news papers are used by the devil. UCKG is the fast growing church in SA and it is gain strength everyday. Satan is angry and envious of what the lord is doing.

Revelations scripture tells us that the will be people who were working for God and now they turn againts them. This is what is happening right now.

SLICKER
23 Mar 2009 16:05

Wake up people especially those who know and follow the word of God. The Devil is a lie. UCKG is the fastest growing church in SA. No church in SA has done what UCKG has done with shor period of time. Helping poor community,openning a health care,Building so many church. There is no church in SA that has many branches like UCKG.

andi01
23 Mar 2009 16:49

There is no church in SA that has many branches like UCKG- really?????

andi01
23 Mar 2009 16:50

There is no church in SA that has many branches like UCKG- really?????

mstick
23 Mar 2009 16:59

i got an email about the church thingy........never liked that church anyway i thought it was satanist related

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 07:19

mstick why you think it was satanist?? you can't base your argument on anything. We are there as UCKH not for pastors or building but to receive the presents of God. How man souls were save from the devi? Many thousands have been saved including my self.

Tynt!
24 Mar 2009 08:04

@slika..
I remember there was a revolting article about Pastor Chris (Christ embassy), and pastor Irene from Venda… Yes I do believe you when you say the devil is also using the press, but if the source happens to be the pastor/ pastors from different branches of the church, then I must say: There’s definitely something wrong with the church…..
Nna I personally don’t like that church, and I so believe what is written on the news paper… The funny part is I didn’t believe all that was written about pastor Irene and Pastor Chris, coz I believe in them., not that I worship them, but I feel they are truly God sent, just as much as u (slika) believe that its all a lie.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 08:51

Tynt you are becoming bias now. Why do you disagree when they mentioned things about the Crist embassy. What is it that makes you have scaptics about UCKG not them? If you could met me in 8years  back you would say there is is GOD in UCKG. My entire family were transformed when I went to UCKG and I prayed for them and God did his part. today we are free from evil spirit and we all accepted Jesus as our saviour.

People must stop spreading lies, come with basis not false accusation. UCKG is the fast growing church.If God was no there it would never sustain the past 17yrs of persecution.

Tynt!
24 Mar 2009 08:56

Slika UCKG i berekela wena, not me,,,, so please buddy, keep ur faith up, en so will I....

Maybe if u can enlighten me, den i will have a beta understanding!!! So please take me back to 8 years ago?!?!?!?

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 09:03

It is quite a long story but God know what he did for me. Look tynt when you said it works for me not what do u mean. Have you ever been at UCKG?

If not don't believe everything you hear from these people. I will keep my faith and keep yours as well but don't come here with stories. Why you people don't leave us in peace? why this persecution? Watch your faith people especial those who pretend to be cristians. God said we should not judge. let God's justice be served and all those who are unjust will be served.

I will advise you Tynt to focus on your salvation instead of chasing things that are far from you.

Mosby
24 Mar 2009 09:15

tyny,you seem to have problem with U.C.K.G, why are you like that,is it because you are ex member or you have received wrong advises

One and Only
24 Mar 2009 09:34

Not that I am defending UCKG but these so called pastors are not telling 
the whole truth, why did they agree to the terms mentioned when they
joined the church? Why are the coming out now? Is this just a campaign to
blemish the UCKG name?

When they were hired they were told exactly what is expected of them yet
they went ahead and accepted the positions, now that they cannot perform 
they talk rubbish. If they were real pastors and knew what what they stood
for, they would have to told UCKG to go to hell.

I respect the UCKG for putting people's money to work by building churches
and be involved in community works compared to other churches who have
been there for decades but are still operating in tents.

Some of you are disappointed and mean because the church did not solve
your problems but are forgetting that it doesn't matter which church you 
attend it is your faith that will see you through.

Phikza
24 Mar 2009 10:03

it doesn't matter which church you
attend it is your faith that will see you through.......
well said!!!

Mosby
24 Mar 2009 10:07

maud
24 Mar 2009 10:24

hi guys, i have been following your respond patiently and silently,
i am on of those who strongly believe in god ,i pray  , i sing and i praise god, i am engaged to a church priest  and i dont go to church , he dont mind donating thousands to church ,off which i am not complaining , but there is one thing i like to tell you ,  i prefare someone who drinks 24 hrs than those people who call themselves christians they are so cruel. my church is in my bedroom and trust me god does wonders for me.

funkyziemz
24 Mar 2009 10:25

The issue here SLICKER is not the word of God, its the fact that Pastors r making money from people who r hoping for better things in life, hence they go to the church. Why r they putting so much emphasis on donations or giving in abundance...it should come from the heart and not be made feel bad about not donating????why r they telling the amount range that is acceptable in the eyes of the Lord????r u being stupid or blind....comeon! i go to church to praise and worship my God with fellow Christians and not to make anyone else rich....

myname
24 Mar 2009 10:31

That is why i neva put more than R5 at church....andigqithi apho.

Mosby
24 Mar 2009 10:34

I agree with that ,what you said about U.C.K.G,that is doing so many things in the community,if you can check you wil find that everyware were there is this church always find them busy with trying to help people there,

I think we must look at both sides of the stories,the ex-pastors who seem to be complaining,i mean lets fase the facts here,there were on the alter for more than 10 years,if there was something there were not happy with why didn't they say anything about it,only when they are found doing wrong then they start complaining.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 10:35

funky just to correct you my friend. The church does asked for donations on  few occassions but they emphasises on tither and offerings because this what God asked all those who call him he is the lord and their saviour to test him in tithes and offerings.

Stop calling tithe and offerings a donation. Jesus was hated by people who were praying and worshiping God (that it Pharases).

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 10:40

myname how do you expect to receive great things when you have a limit to your offerings. The bible tells us wha you receive will be measure with what you give. This means if R5 is your best god will give you the best as well unless other wise.

ting
24 Mar 2009 11:10

Back in the day i knew a woman who used to go to  these kinda churches, not UCKG in particular maare one fo these churches that have a budget for advertising,marketing & promotions(i.e not your traditional Roman Catholic/Anglican/Methodist etc). 

Apparently they prayed for different things on different days. For instance they would pray for marriage on mon, material wealth on tues, employment on wed and so on (this reminds me of those sunday sun classifieds ads - bring back lost lover in 2 days, reverse life sentence,bring back money,get paid3xmore, promotion, pass ur exams and interviews)...Anyway...

This woman had been married for a very long time and was trying hard to have a child and she resorted to that church. The last time I saw this woman was about 4 years ago still childless...ke sono wa itse. Sad thing is these people are led to believe that they must only come to church or pray to God when they want something...cant we just pray nje nje for the just....batho le bone ba naive man!

tizoz
24 Mar 2009 11:15

My uncle used to go to UCKG and the nigger gave everything he earned to them, he used to walk +_40 k's to and another 40k's back to the church. Why because he was broke and he couldnt take a taxi because that would dent the 10% or whatever they give there. He left the chrurch about a year or so ago broke as hell to this day he is a broke ass nicca all because he couldnt think for himself all he was concerned about was to give and give and give.

I am all for giving but when they ask for cheques and have speed points in church, now that just screams unholy, I am sorry.

Rhema needs to be checked as well, those guys just declared millions in profits! why the hell is the church in the business of making a profit! and the pastor flies in on a private jet to do the sermon every sunday and flies back to his beach house in Durban WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

myname
24 Mar 2009 11:28

@Slicker that R5 doesnt go to God hon, so DONTS nhe.

If u r willing to increase their salaries, just put half of ur salary then leave me alone. The things i have are from God not from pastor what what, who told me that R2 is not allowed in his church.

AkaS
24 Mar 2009 11:38

@ One & Only Some of you are disappointed and mean because the church did not solve your problems but are forgetting that it doesn't matter which church you attend it is your faith that will see you through.

Let me shift a bit to UCKG and look at all the charismatic, pentecoastal and maybe or online churches. I agree with u when u say ppl are dissapointed..... & that its yo faith dat will see you through. Yes everything comes from God and no one else. The thing is first of all ppl need to be introduced to the real gospel of Jesus Christ & make them to have faith in him and that everything comes from him.  I believe this ppl get dissapointed because I think most ministers have shifted to the purpose that God has called them (Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me; he has anointed me to tell the good news to the poor. He has sent me to announce release to the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to set oppressed people free,) to their personal interest and think when you do good to them then you'll be blessed. NO everything we do it must be unto the Lord not to man because He's the rewarder of all good things.
If I may quote 3 weeks back in my church the pastor invited this guy from outside SA as guest speaker and there has been complain that we don't give enough, guess what this guy harmed on us cursing the whole church bcoz we don't want to give. He threatened us that whoever doesn't give a tithe and more offering will lose their jobs and thus says the Lord. He carried for an hour just cursing and saying whatever negative things.

In this case I just thought pastors they have forgotten who have called them if they lack anything they must contact the relevant person (God) not us. Am not saying we shouldn't give actually I give every kind of offering in the house of God but I don't like this nowadays system.

In short, we are all in need but my help comes from above not someone around me or I know.  God uses ppl to bless you so if anyone is in need let ask God and God will make a way. So ppl no help comes from church and to the ministers no money or help comes from the congregation let's use right channels.

ting
24 Mar 2009 11:41

and the pastor flies in on a private jet to do the sermon every sunday and flies back to his beach house in Durban..... stru's gawd? Rhema ya di busa mos!

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 11:53

ting where do you get that information about the pastor having a private jett? people stop coming up with lies.

If guys you are saying these churches are using poor people's money why the South African Council of Churches is not intervening? Why the government doesn't see that they are in SCAMS?

Answer me people.If anyone of you has evidence of these churches of wrong doing report them to police?


I got you people now.

JZA
24 Mar 2009 11:54

I hv bn gng to this church since 1992 whn it 1st came to SA. I didn't hv any problems but God has blessed me so much. If i wan't in the know like most of u, i probbly wudve sided wit y'all. The church does not problaim to bless anyone, they teach peeple abt God and how to practice their faith. And if those of u are having such a gud tym critising the UCKG, took the time to read the Bible then u wd understand atht the it is only ur faith that can bring u blessings. Nobody is obligated to give, the pastors advise to give ur best to God which is also in the Bible. there isn't a church that doesn't ask for offerings, atleast with the UCKG u can see where ur money's going. I hav given money in the church, lots of it as an offering to God & 2 help his work to be spread around. I giv tithe which amounts to more than R 1700 from my salary every month because its in the bible. the church prays to the living God in the name of Jesus.

tshepiso
24 Mar 2009 11:56

thanks God the truth is out 

I once visit this church , what wonders me most that day was, the way the money was requested by the pastor. It was like I was at an auction. He was like " ALL THOSE WHO IS WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE R5000.00 please come forward. he countsdown until at R10.00. I was so suprise and never go back there again.

What bothers me is that my sister contributes half of her salary every single month.

I tried to talk sense in her BUT it seems I make the situation worst than before, So what I am going to do, is to print this article and paste it all places where people could reach the message 

Thank you MAKHUMZA

tshepiso
24 Mar 2009 11:56

thanks God the truth is out 

I once visit this church , what wonders me most that day was, the way the money was requested by the pastor. It was like I was at an auction. He was like " ALL THOSE WHO IS WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE R5000.00 please come forward. he countsdown until at R10.00. I was so suprise and never go back there again.

What bothers me is that my sister contributes half of her salary every single month.

I tried to talk sense in her BUT it seems I make the situation worst than before, So what I am going to do, is to print this article and paste it all places where people could reach the message 

Thank you MAKHUMZA

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 12:04

tshepis you give according to your faith and what you can afford. There people who can give an offering of R5000 and whereby there are many people who can give R10. I don't see a problem here.

Please answer my questions above,

pnyembe
24 Mar 2009 12:12

Well  Hi Every 
Ke le dumedisa ka lebitso la Jeso ke mo atluledi wa runa, kere dumelang bana ba ntate ba keneng tempileng modimo o lerorise molimo o sa feleng 

When it comes to god you are not forced to offer money to show the faith you have in him. U kuhlakanipha koku qala huku msaba uJehova. I believe and have faith in him and my soul belongs to him and is my offering to him

When it comes to the Universal church I was once and believe me it is a real money scam. I mean Ko Kerekeng i can offer 50c or even less but ko UCKG it was R5 or more and they More you give the more you get blessed. Ha re lwane le diabolosi A seke a sebedisa le bitso la morena go we tsa tshelet.
So ker tiang moreng le matleng a hae a sa setuing ke letho 

(excuse my Tswana still learning and i have good teachers ko kerekeng) 



One and Only
24 Mar 2009 12:20

There's nothing wrong with Rhema declaring millions in profits, it shows transparacy I suggest you analyse their income statement, balance sheet and cash-flow statement for they year before making any deductions.

I would like to go back to the Bible during the times of Cain & Abel, the Bible says "Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock."

The reason why Cain's offering was not accepted is because he was like most of us he did not make God his 1st priority and offered stuff of inferior quality on the other side Abel made it a point that he offers the best to God the provider. 

This doesn't mean that you must give 100% of your salary to the church but give according to what you can afford wholeheartedly, it doesn't matter if it's 2c, R2, or R2000 as long as it comes from the bottom of your heart. Remember the woman who had nothing but 2 worthless coins?

Tithing is an African thing it did not come with religion, remember during the times of our forefathers it was compulsory to bring the first harvest to the King. This is also linked to quantum science, you reap what you sow, you believe and manifest. 

The banks will charge you interest on money lent to you but God doesn't do that, all He wants is your honest, if that R5 comes from the bottom of your heart it's fine He will multiply it by 1000 but if not, do not ask Him anything worth more than R5.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 12:30

you started talking nice and now you come up with lies. there is nothing like R5 or more. People stop lying behind the house of God. there more you open your heart to jesus and the more you draw God's attention.

Asked to many people here if you have evidence why don't you report to SAPS. SACC (South african council of churches) tried to  conducted a research on the what was UCKG doing wrong and they find nothing.

People why you seem to care about us members of UCKG where we know the truth and the way is in Jesus. We don't idolise a pastor so and so. We don't bow down before a man.

Vuka mntomnaya we are intelligent to differentiate the truth and the lie. If you have a discening spirit within you, you will alwys concuore in life particularly where the world is againts you because of the love of Jesus you have.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 12:38

One and only you have hit the snake on its head bro or sister. I told them yesterday that there are two types of offering irrespective of the amount. The offering that comes from a sincere heart and the one from the heart that give unwillingly. One will be accepted and the other one will be rejected.

KeleFabulous
24 Mar 2009 12:38

have not read all the replies but i've seen enough. i'm reminded of why i don't involve the church in my relationship with God. i'm reminded of why i choose to speak to Him anywhere, anytime and why i choose to believe it doesn't matter where or how i talk to Him, just as long as i do. batho ba kereke can really turn a person off. look at all of you now pointing the finger at each other. haayi!

pnyembe
24 Mar 2009 12:44

OH!!! Slicker  Uma ngithi ngiyaqabanga uma kudlu i envlope ebhalwe R5 ngiqabanga ukuthi kumele nginikele ngo R5  not less surely you understand ukuthi when you that you thinking tells you R5 o more and not less than and tell me that when was the last time you gave in less than R5 rands at your church i mean I' talking about a visit that i made last year

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 12:48

Guys I urge you people to stop this topic please. It is boring and it allow the devil to come in your heart and start hating other people.

goldii
24 Mar 2009 13:06

@ One and Only

Tithing is an African thing it did not come with religion.

Could you please expand on this statament. 

Not trying to be funny but one learns new things everyday .

For clarity sake , I do not agree with the above statement and believe its false.

However that is my opinion not fact.

No offence.

maud
24 Mar 2009 13:07

second that.

i am trying to post some pictures taken on road, striking taxes . i give up now ndi dom period

andi01
24 Mar 2009 13:25

The Pastors

I think it took them very long to finally speak out. If you ask me, this is just a case of Lucifer. Lets give it 2 months and you’ll hear these pastors are opening their own church, which has the same difference with the UCKG. If they were honest they would have come out a long time ago. These are just greedy and know for sure, if they open their own church, they will be high up (in terms of leadership), and be able to con people and get a great reward. Even if the church is a scam, what makes them any better coz they have been scaming for a few years, together with the church.

Blockers

God is not the church, saying a church is a scam, doesn’t mean that you are insulting God, for we have been in church a thousand times, but we still waiting to see God, so please bana.

FK
24 Mar 2009 13:34

I am not a UCKG member or subscribe to their beliefs and doctrines however, I would like to disagree with One and Only when shim says Tithing is an African thing it did not come with religion.

The Bible has many scriptures that talks about tithing (New and Old testament).

Before we start spending, we are to honor God by giving Him his part first. It's in the Bible, Proverbs 3:9, TLB. "Honor the Lord by giving Him the first part of all your income."  What is income?  The amount of money received over a period of time either as payment for work, goods, or services, or as profit on capital.
What part of our income has the Lord claimed as His? It's in the Bible, Leviticus 27:30, TLB. "A tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, is the Lord's, and is holy."
Tithing is a way to teach us that God must be our #1 priority. It's in the Bible, Deuteronomy 14:22-23, TLB. "You must tithe all of your crops every year. Bring this tithe to eat before the Lord your God at the place He shall choose as His sanctuary; this applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn of your flocks and herds. The purpose of tithing is to teach you always to put God first in your lives."
How was the tithe used in Israel? It's in the Bible, Numbers 18:21, TLB. "You priests may own no property, nor have any other income, for I am all that you need. As for the tribe of Levi, your relatives, they shall be paid for their service with the tithes from the entire land of Israel."
Christ endorsed tithing. It's in the Bible, Matthew 23:23, NIV. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former."
How does Paul say the gospel ministry is to be supported? It's in the Bible, I Corinthians 9:13-14, TLB. "Don't you realize that God told those working in His temple to take for their own needs some of the food brought there as gifts to Him? And those who work at the altar of God get a share of the food that is brought by those offering it to the Lord. In the same way the Lord has given orders that those who preach the Gospel should be supported by those who accept it."
On what fundamental basis does the requirement of tithe paying rest? It's in the Bible, Psalm 24:1, TLB. "The earth belongs to God! Everything in all the world is His!"
Where does wealth come from? It's in the Bible, Deuteronomy 8:18, NIV. "But remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the ability to produce wealth."
In addition to the tithe what are we told to bring to his courts? It's in the Bible, Psalm 96:8, NIV. "Ascribe to the Lord the glory due His name; bring an offering and come into His courts."
God says we rob Him if we don't give tithe and offerings. It's in the Bible, Malachi 3:8, NIV. "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob Me. But you ask, 'How do we rob You?' In tithes and offerings."
How does God suggest we test His promised blessings? It's in the Bible, Malachi 3:10, NIV. "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house. Test Me in this, says the Lord Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."
Give with joy, because you want to please God. It's in the Bible, II Corinthians 9:7, NIV. "Each man should give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
God says your gift should honestly reflect how much you've

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 13:45

Just to add on this tithe on gross not net in case you get paid.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 13:46

IF the church was really a SCAM it would not be existing by now. Open your eyes people, devil is a liar.

FK
24 Mar 2009 13:51

Yes Slicker, if SARS can tax you on gross why do you have to give the Lord amarintsa?

One and Only
24 Mar 2009 13:59

I would have given better answers if I knew from what backgroung you're coming from. With the Black race be it Pedis, Tswanas, Zulus and Swatis they still practice this culture. If you have harvested mealies, potatoes, pumpkins and breeding cattle etc there would be a annual ceremony whereby people would give a portion of their harvest too the King.

In some parts of the country this is still practised and sometimes you would get a fine for touching your harvest without giving anything to the King because it is believed that the King is the provider of everything in that particular land. Without the King there wouldn't be any rain for your crops and so on.

In some villages like in Limpopo if you are having a big ceremony like a wedding where a cow is slaughtered a portion would be taken to the King, same with families living not 50km apart or so. In our culture it is best practice that if you as a child had a ritual ceremony, you also take a portion of meat and other food to your parents to inform them that you have done something .

If you have read the bible well you will see that there it correlates with our culture in a way.

ting
24 Mar 2009 14:12

abuti slicker wee plis monna wa Modimo  ke kopa o bale response ya me gape tuuu i was merely repeating in shock what AkaS said in his response hence stru's gawd..keng ekare o emotional so? o ntle sentle yong!

ting
24 Mar 2009 14:14

oops sorry tizoz and not AkaS

One and Only
24 Mar 2009 14:17

What part of our income has the Lord claimed as His? It's in the Bible, Leviticus 27:30, TLB. "A tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, is the Lord's, and is holy." You forgot to mention the place where these above-mentioned things be brought to. Before religion existed, before African knew about the bible they used to offer these things to their respective Kings until the churches and politics came and took over.

The first people to ever existed and occupied Africa are the Khoisans and in their times the bible was not there but they were tithing. To whom were they tithing to since the churches were not there?

Africa did not come to life when missionaries started, it was there long before the bible but still theses rituals were carried out.

FK
24 Mar 2009 14:24

We learn everyday and thank you One and Only for opening my eyes.  I was not aware of africans tithing.

dali
24 Mar 2009 14:25

how shocking.

zozoe
24 Mar 2009 14:26

WAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND KA DIS KERK IS WHY BA STOP BATHO TO COME TO CHURCH AUWA I NEVER LIKED THE CHURCH

THANX ANDI01 KA CONFESSION THIS REALY IVE US MORE EVIDENDENCE GORE THIS CHURCH IS A SCAM

AND WENA SLICKER WHY ARE YOU TRYIN SO HARD TI DEFFEND THE CHURCH OR YOU R A MEMBER

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 14:31

Zozoe proved it that is a scam. I am telling you that you cannot. Why this scam is growing every day that people open their mouth percetuting.If it was the scam the church will not be full today.

FK
24 Mar 2009 14:32

One and Only - are we then in agreement that although tithing is biblical, africans started the ritual long before the missionaries arrived with christianity in Africa?

andi01
24 Mar 2009 14:34

@Slicker-Open your eyes people, devil is a liar.- i think you should say this again, and this time, aim the advice towards your direction. He is a liar, and very greed and plays on the hearst of those with little faith. Once you believe more in the church than you do in God, thats your first step to Hell, and the devil wont stop until you see HELL, or seek HELP, from the AlimightY

Cande
24 Mar 2009 14:41

OMFW, how did i miss this? I will read replies @ home

goldii
24 Mar 2009 14:47

Thank you One and Only.

Still do no agree that tithing is an African thing  and what you have discribed above is/was not tithing.

What you have neglected to mention is that the land always belonged to the King /Kings/Indunas/Amakosi and the clans/people were the subjects( for lack of a better word) 

The people would harvest the land , livestock. The first crops, fatest livestock etc.... were always offered to the rulers as thanksgiving, to get blessings for the following years harvest ,and to also show the rulers that they were wise and that the land they had chosen for grazing , farming was fertile etc.........

The land belonged to the Kings and the subjects had to make sure that the King ate well and was prosporus(sp)

It was/is not tithing it is paying your due's according to your standing in the ladder of the food chain so to speak.

Anyway thank you for your explanation, I have learned something new.

myname
24 Mar 2009 14:47

Religion & politics can make TVSA bloggers talk u know

We should remember this guys, we will neva believe in the same thing.

andi01
24 Mar 2009 14:48

Matthew 24:24: For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Ms. Jay
24 Mar 2009 14:56

You forgot to mention the place where these above-mentioned things be brought to. Before religion existed, before African knew about the bible they used to offer these things to their respective Kings until the churches and politics came and took over.

The first people to ever existed and occupied Africa are the Khoisans and in their times the bible was not there but they were tithing. To whom were they tithing to since the churches were not there?Africa did not come to life when missionaries started, it was there long before the bible but still theses rituals were carried out.

I must agree with One and Only? When you study church history + bibliology, the time line of the bible and when it was made available you will understand better what he is saying. If you look at the missionary journeys of the apostles + believers of that time you will see that Timothy preached to an Ethiopian Queen as did others (who carried the news of the gospel); looking at the maps and names of biblical times as well you will notice that Africa indeed was involved - customs were passed down + cultures molded though the bible was not written as it is now then.

The bible was written much later than we think it was in the order in which we find it but the levitcal law and customs were passed down before, I believe that missionaries only brought the bible not the gospel or moral culture. That was brought long before hence they tithed to kings before the bible arrived

makhepesi
24 Mar 2009 14:59

WOW I have been missing out

realist
24 Mar 2009 15:00

Religion & politics can make TVSA bloggers talk u know 
Unlike....and I agree with your statement.

Cande
24 Mar 2009 15:09

Mina i dont like these churches were they have special water/cloths/tea's e.t.c so IPCC/ZCC/Universal is not for me. and am not saying there is anything evil happening there, just saying what they do sometimes freaks me out.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:11

Andi don't quote bible for your own benefit, I asked you  prove or tell me what is it that convinced you that the church is a SCAM?.If you say all that because of what is written in papers I will tell you now that you are still  immatured with your faith.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:15

Cande if you read bible you will learn that the man of God were using the spiritual elements like cloth,water just to name the few. God has given us wisdom to use our faith as his elements. Remember when Jesus heal the blind by his saliver and the ash. There are many element that man of God used like sticks, stones, oil and many more.

andi01
24 Mar 2009 15:16

@Slicker-Andi don't quote bible for your own benefit- and dont quote my rplies to your benefit. I didnt say the "fake Prophets are in the UCKG", maybe I am refering to the ones who left, hence my earlier response,

zo
24 Mar 2009 15:19

I talked to someone who had AIDS and started takind ARVs, she was attending this church. Whilst on ARVs she got better and she told me she was told by the pastor to testify and say she never took any medication she got better because she was tithing and paying the church almost all her salary.

apparently before you testify , you are screened first by the pastor and your testimony "edited".

One and Only
24 Mar 2009 15:21

Agree with you on that, the problem with Africans is that they never put nothing on paper and the other races came, took our things, turn them around and put them down as their own. No church in the world is a scam but it will be when you go to church with the intention of gaining wealth.

If Patrice Motsepe can start attending ABC Church now, a large portion of people will also go to the same church thinking that they gonna be rich like him not taking into consideration of how hard he worked to be where he is now. These are the types of people you would find offering large sums of money/ all their salaries with the hope of being like Motsepe. When realising that they are not getting any returns back they would them say a church is a scam.

There's also another type, one that has been in a particular church for a decade but are still poor while people who have joined the church after them have prospered and are now rich, these people do not understand that they have to change whatever they are doing wrong in order to be rich. Going to church daily, paying your tithes monthly doesn't guarantee that you are gonna be rich. If you think you are then you are scaming yourself.

According to my knowledge you can do either one of the 2 to satisfy your spiritual needs:
1) You can belong to one religion and use the founder as your way to God (Jesus, Muhammad)
2) You can be yourself and use your culture and tradition as a way to God (Ancestors, Nature)

Whichever way you choose is alright as they both lead to God and they are both endorsed by the Old and New Testament.

myname
24 Mar 2009 15:30

I talked to someone who had AIDS and started takind ARVs, she was attending this church. Whilst on ARVs she got better and she told me she was told by the pastor to testify and say she never took any medication she got better because she was tithing and paying the church almost all her salary

apparently before you testify , you are screened first by the pastor and your testimony "edited".

Are u OK Slicker, i bet u r something big from that church or a shareholder, the way u defending it??? (it makes me bold these question marks)

" If it smells like a rat & looks like a rat, then it definitely is a GUNDWANA".

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:37

Zo, you know what my friend lies are mainly spread like the third person information. people when they want to lie they always said I heard some who said they used to do ABC. I would have answer you if you were talking about yourself and you could name and shame the person who said you must lie in the house of God.

We could go together and you will be the witness and that pastor could be arrested for deceived the congregation. The problem is that the information will always come from the third person. That is why i believe that what you are saying Zo is a lie.

Best-Achiever
24 Mar 2009 15:38

Tjo tjo tjo

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:39

Zo u are lying by saying your testimony is edited. That is a blue lie.

Best-Achiever
24 Mar 2009 15:44

tl tl tl tl tl tl

Cande
24 Mar 2009 15:47

Slicker is just speaking like some who goes to this church, obviously shim has to support it just like if i could say Rhema should be investigated probably someone who goes to Rhema will defend it. So i feel where shim is coming from.

andi01
24 Mar 2009 15:47

My opinion of the UCKG is that, its a money making SCAM, period. whether the pastors are evil or what, thats a topic for another day. i have been there, and trust me, I left the t-shirt at the door.

The positives about the church, is that, it teaches one to pray, testify and that it doesnt limit interaction with God to Only (sunday/ or thursday), whether the reason for that is to get more money or genuine, its again another topic for another day.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:47

People stop lying for the sake of satisfy yourself. Bless those who are percetuted and crucified because you follow the lord Jesus Christ. People used to talk about snakes and they failed and now they come up with Scam and they will fail.

UCKG doesn't belong to anybody but God. If God is with UCKG who will be againts them. No one, talk and talk but the congregation is gaining strength daily. Go to any  branch today it will be full to its capacity.

All those who are jealous will soon realised that they are striking a mountain with a stone.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 15:50

Cande South African Council of Churches has been investigating UCKG since 2001 and they still have not find any eveidence. you can investigate as well

Cande
24 Mar 2009 15:54

NO sorry am not interested in investigating any church, i will just study a church and see if i its the kind of church i wanna attend, if i happen not to go then i still wont judge it.

Cande
24 Mar 2009 15:57

Why was the church being investigated in the first place? did the council have any reason to suspect that the might be some shady businesses in the church?

Phikza
24 Mar 2009 16:02

I once had a conversation with someone who was attending the church and was furious bout one of our friend talking bad bout the church. 
So he went on and told me that the reason UCKG advertises on how who and who got a big house, a job, a car and etc. was that they believe in Christians growing in every aspect and they want the youth / unbelievers to look up to Christians getting something huge from the Lord. They don’t want people / unbelievers to say look at Phikza she is a Christian but she doesn’t have A, B and C and but goes to church every sunday….but look at Phikzozo she on the other hand don’t go to church drinks from Friday to Sunday, does all these horrible things but she’s got a huge house, a fancy car and a well-paying job. 

So to me when he explained this it looked like the church and its elders believes in the prosperity of Christians

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:02

Andi tell me what is that you din't like when you were UCKG? I can tell you now you didn't receive revelation, i.e the present of God in your life.

The problem that you have you were using physical eyes and you should have seek the presents of God in order to receive  spiritual eyes. Seek descening spirit it will help you to know whether you are walking on the right way which is the truth and life.

Sbam
24 Mar 2009 16:03

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:08

Cande the SACC did investigation following the allegations that there was a snake and people were drinking blood.

Since when people don't know the  holy comunion?The grape juice is symbolised as the blood when there is a holy communion. The cheap media took those lies and spread it all over. The worst thing is that the Church grew further than before.

dali
24 Mar 2009 16:09

hawu slic dont u get tired sho!

i also defend bonang every opportunity i get but hayi man this is too much relax a bit.

Dee
24 Mar 2009 16:10

"If you think a guy named Jesus or Mohammed who was supposedly living 2000 years ago, whom you don't even have proof that he was ever alive, is going to come back to save you then you are stupid and you deserve to be fleeced by opportunist preachers and churches"

May Jehova God &  his son Jesus the Christ forgive u...You will be surprised that one day u will find out you are the one who has been stupid, and by then it will be too late.

SLICKER, it concerns me that you seem to be protective of your 'church' more than the 'Lord's name'....You find all kinds of people at church, liers, cheats, etc...and you have no control over that....what if, just what if there are those few people in your church leadership that are actually practicing these things? I cannot know what my Pastor does behind close doors, but I chose to trust him because he is my spiritual father....but should alegations arise, I cannot fight and say he never did anything bcos I woulnt know. People are people at the end of the day, thats why the only person we can rely on is the Lord Jesus bcos he will never disapoint bcos he is the ONLY one who is holy.

On sunday, someone stole a purse in church.....we were all shocked especially my Pastor, but he told us we have no control of who comes to church as sinners are all welcome....so basically you have no control of what happens in your church.

Having said that I dont know if the allegations made on here are true or not but I just wanted to put my point accross.

Cande
24 Mar 2009 16:13

Good point Dee

Ms. Jay
24 Mar 2009 16:13

Why was the church being investigated in the first place? did the council have any reason to suspect that the might be some shady businesses in the church?

they have been on everyone's lips since inception....when u fin dout please let me know; just out of curiosity though

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:14

Dali I don't compromise with my faith and people should not spread baseless lies.

myname
24 Mar 2009 16:14

No wonder Sbam u r toung-tied, i dont blame u dear.

Guys gudnite!

dali
24 Mar 2009 16:20

point taken slic now lets move on to the just wow article ppl...................

Dee
24 Mar 2009 16:21

Thanks Cande babe, i missed u (off-topic...sorry guys)

nyt myname!!

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:23

Dee you have mentioned many points. I don't follow pastors but when people attack the church the way the do we need to help them to clarify the lies. Dee most of these things that are said here are very serious allegations according to SA laws.

People who are into SCAMS should be sent to jail and people who cheating the nation should be arrested if there is  evidence. As long as no one is being question about the allegations I take them as normal lies. South Africa does not tolearate crimina especial those who are in public. My question is that why the SAPS and government is not doing anything if all this is true?

Governement and SAPS cannot be drawn into such lies and false accusation. Dee can't you see that these are the things we are told  about in revelations. Jesus is coming things like these are expected to happened when fellow congrefants and cristians will turn againts you. What I do I follow Jesus alone and I am not turning back. This is a spiritual war and some cristians are so blind with their faith.

Dee
24 Mar 2009 16:23

"Dali I don't compromise with my faith and people should not spread baseless lies."

Thats exactly my point Slicker.....where is your faith? with God or your church????

Weezy...AF
24 Mar 2009 16:34

I really enoy it when people realise that GIVING YOURSELF TO GOD ISN'T GIVING YOUR BELONGINGS TO MEN. Sorry to all the people who lost so much... 1 thing is 4 SURE THO!!! GOD IS STILL WITH YOU!!! These people have vague ideas about GOD. Nothing bad from God will happen to them BUT Their souls will be filled with FILTH n SHAME 4EVA!----We know your GAME!!!

Dee
24 Mar 2009 16:36

Slicker I thot I only made one point to you , that you cannot base your trust on people bcos you dont know what they do behind close doors.

I do agree with you in defending your church bcos its your spiritual home....but do not stamp and say its lies because you can never be sure....all you can say is you fellowship there, and you are happy about your spiritual growth, and how you experience God felowshipping there, and that you have NEVER seen such things.....but do not be so sure and say people (who have been there) are lying , people are evil out there....especially in church. Just because you are a good believer, and do everything the Lord requires from you right, it doesnt mean the next person sitting next to you in church does the same. We should just becareful to put our trust on people, especially in church.....people are evil....never trust a human being fully, even your Pastor....Put your full trust in Jesus.....

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:44

Dee my faith is with the Lord Almighty God, my saviour and my provider.

By protecting the church was to removed pr clarify the lies that I've hear before I was invited to come to UCKG. When I used to do evil and bad things no one care about me. When my life was full of hatred and had not peace in my life no one was there to advise me what to. When my family was destroyed and were torment by witchcradt no body came to show us the direction.

Today now that I know jesus he is my lord  through the UCKG, some people from other churches came and invited me to their church because the saw that I and my family are transformed we are living a peaceful life they are calling us. The worst part is to tell us that, that church is a satnic church. If that is the case let be but my lord and I know where I stand between me and him. I always pray for those who perscetute the will of God. I gave my life to God through the same church. I learned how to use my faith.


The problem is that people are going to church for material blessing. The bible teach us to see  God first and the rest will follow.

andi01
24 Mar 2009 16:44

@ Slicker- Andi tell me what is that you din't like when you were UCKG? and  I can tell you now you didn't receive revelation, i.e the present of God in your life- if you already ahve these assumptions then i wont bother with the response, but one thing I can tell you is that, God knew me before I was born, his Holly spirit manifested inside of me, the second he gave me a soul and a purpose, I didnt need any church to give me that, i do need the gathering just to have a great time with other people with the same faith as me. 

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:50

Dee I know that when we are all in church we seem holy and pure but we don't know what happened behind the sin. There were people here who were coming up with stories that they know some who did ABC. I want a person who will say I went to testify and my testimony was edited. It has never happened to me.

Dee do you believe that the allegations that put on Pastor Chris were true?

What about Pr Irene?

andi01
24 Mar 2009 16:52

@Silcker-Seek descening spirit it will help you to know whether you are walking on the right way which is the truth and life.- i seeked them and they showed me that going the UCKG way I was not walking in the right way which is the truth and life, then tell me who are you to question my converstaion I had with the one above. There is good in every evil, maybe the little good that's in the UCKG is what helps u Slicker, maybe it didnt help me bcoz I know how magnificent the Almighty's work is, and I dont settle for anything less when it comes to him, i want all good things, good.

SLICKER
24 Mar 2009 16:54

Andi focus on the bible my sister, read the bible as it is the guideline and specification of our lives.

andi01
24 Mar 2009 16:58

Dee
24 Mar 2009 17:11

Dee my faith is with the Lord Almighty God, my saviour and my provider. 
Amen to this.

By protecting the church was to removed pr clarify the lies that I've hear before I was invited to come to UCKG. When I used to do evil and bad things no one care about me. When my life was full of hatred and had not peace in my life no one was there to advise me what to. When my family was destroyed and were torment by witchcradt no body came to show us the direction.
Today now that I know jesus he is my lord through the UCKG, some people from other churches came and invited me to their church because the saw that I and my family are transformed we are living a peaceful life they are calling us. The worst part is to tell us that, that church is a satnic church. If that is the case let be but my lord and I know where I stand between me and him. I always pray for those who perscetute the will of God. I gave my life to God through the same church. I learned how to use my faith. 
Jesus is your Lord through the Holy Spirit, not UCKG.....at UCKG God provided people who gave you support, love and teachings that you need to groe your faith and experience God the way you do (which is amazing), but this could have happened at any church, or through a person who was just sent by God just for that purpose....who doesnt belong to any church & but teaches the Gospel bcos u find people like those.
It seems to me that you say you & your family couldnt have experienced Jesus's love and grace if you were in another church or not via a church at all? This is where my problem is....we should not mix the Lord with any denomination,he cares less about which church you belong to... remember Jesus did not belong or own any church when he was on earth, he was just teaching the Gospel.
The 'church' is made up of sinful people (including Pastors), the bible says we are all sinners and we are indeed....and a church doesnt define God....becareful relating God too much to people....people are of a sinful nature unlike God....never trust a human being fully.....always leave a room for disappointment when it comes to people bcos they are capable of anything....including pastors.


Dee
24 Mar 2009 17:17

"Dee do you believe that the allegations that put on Pastor Chris were true?"......

Slicker my answer is: I dont know.....they might be. I dont put anything past any person....I just think if its true he will answer to God, if its not true bless him....

Dee
24 Mar 2009 17:20

Slicker I admire you love for God, and the wonderful person and christian you sound to be....but you just have to be careful not to put too much trust on people, thats all...

Gotta go bye...

Vesa
24 Mar 2009 17:41

I just  skimmed through the article and the responses. I would like to say I'm a member of Grace Bible church from many years ago....I still remember we went through the same phase where  our pastor was accused of running a cult.....he was accused of claiming to heal people of all kinds  of diseases, conning people out of their money and all sorts of things. This was in the late 80's early 90's. Horrible newspaper articles were written about the church and the pastor....

Like any other phase it blew over and the thruth about the authenticity of the church eventually surfaced! 

FK
25 Mar 2009 08:49

@ One and Only, in response to your second point i.e. 2) You can be yourself and use your culture and tradition as a way to God (Ancestors, Nature) please clarify the Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
in relation to ancestors?

One and Only
25 Mar 2009 09:51

Before Bible come to existence people used their ancestors to communicate with God, it is believed that when a person dies the spirit doesn't die it continues to dwell in the natural world or it goes back to God.

The main purpose of ancestor veneration is not to ask for favours as those can only be granted by God but is to pass a message to God as they see and know better as they are on the other side and also to perform your filial duties.

The thing is that as Blacks we do not really understand the bible, have you noticed how the very same people who came with the bible honor, respect and remember their deceased ancestors? Whites go to cemeteries to put flowers and speak to the dead every now and then, also along roads/freeways where a white person died you would also find flowers put by the family members. Isn't this ironic?

Do you know that if Muslims came before Christians in SA, most of us would be Muslims? The purpose of introducing the bible in SA was to stabilise Blacks and make them to give up everything they had in the name of the religion. What did Mary and the other women went back to Jesus tomb if the dead should be forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 - this verse fits well when relating to the death of an animal like a chicken or a cow but does not go well in the case of a pet like a dog/ cat because these are treated like human beings. Take this verse, apply it to your partner, your child, your parents and if they die don't bury them with respect just dig a hole somewhere, after all they hear nothing and cannot do anything to you anymore.

I am also 100% sure that you would be here if your ancestors never existed, you do not have a family tree, they do not also form part of yourself as you do not share any DNA. Why have we not forgotten the memory of Martin Luther King, Hitler, Sadaam, Chris Hani, Oliver Tambo and so on?

Tynt!
25 Mar 2009 10:02

tyny,you seem to have problem with U.C.K.G, why are you like that,is it because you are ex member or you have received wrong advises

Yoh! Still on this UCKG scam?!?!?!?!?
Welll da last tym I replied, I cudnt reply to any article on TVSA, but hey lemme give it a short while I still have a chance…

Mosby>>>> Its tynt not tyny
LMAO>>> I was neva a meber, and neva will be… I am still on my comfort zone, which is ma church of coz, and I am not willing to give it up, or trade it for any thing, not even UCKG!!!… 

This beta be ma last visit ...

FK
25 Mar 2009 10:42

The main purpose of ancestor veneration is not to ask for favours as those can only be granted by God but is to pass a message to God as they see and know better as they are on the other side and also to perform your filial duties.
Well, I have the direct link to God.  I don't need a pastor, bishop, pope or even my dead family to pass a message to God on my behalf.  His door is forever open.  He does not sleep nor slumber.  He has invited everyone to come before Him in prayer. 

The thing is that as Blacks we do not really understand the bible, have you noticed how the very same people who came with the bible honor, respect and remember their deceased ancestors? Whites go to cemeteries to put flowers and speak to the dead every now and then, also along roads/freeways where a white person died you would also find flowers put by the family members. Isn't this ironic?  I have a problem with that.   What is their stance re the state of the dead?

Do you know that if Muslims came before Christians in SA, most of us would be Muslims? The purpose of introducing the bible in SA was to stabilise Blacks and make them to give up everything they had in the name of the religion. I am glad they did.  Now that I know the truth, I can't go on living like before.  I am so glad my great grand parents accepted the word from The Book for me to have a hope.

What did Mary and the other women went back to Jesus tomb if the dead should be forgotten. Read the whole verse.  They had with them spices to annoint the body this was done in accordance to the burial custom of the Jews.  They did not go to pray.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 - this verse fits well when relating to the death of an animal like a chicken or a cow but does not go well in the case of a pet like a dog/ cat because these are treated like human beings. Where does this interpretation come from.  If I remember correctly, the only person spoke in parables was Jesus.

Take this verse, apply it to your partner, your child, your parents and if they die don't bury them with respect just dig a hole somewhere, after all they hear nothing and cannot do anything to you anymore. 

Yes, I do have family tree and it ends there.  I don''t talk to my ancestors, but talk about them.  I don't ask them a thing and I don't visit their graves.  I don't appease them.  They don't feature in my life any longer.   I do have their pictures for remembrance.  I don't consult with them.  Don't clean their graves, put new flowers, their favourite glass, Ntsu (Snuff) a mirror alongside.  My dad was laid to rest on the 3rd September 2005 and that was the last time I saw his grave.  And guess what?  God is still in control and He is blessing me according to His riches.  His mercies are new every morning.  Not once, has God directed me to go talk to them.  I have a personal Saviour who died and rose again.  He is so much better than my dead ancestors.  Death couldn't keep him down  Unfortunately, can't say the same about my dad.

That is my story, my faith, my conviction and Im sticking to it.

Miracle Child
25 Mar 2009 11:08

Itjoo Makhumza, Dankie wena for getting them bloggers talking, i gotta say i am learning a lot from this article i kid u not.

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:53

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:54

you know nothing but this all u people wanna do is put it down always frst get your facts right then u can say something

Cande
21 Apr 2009 13:56

jah neh

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:53

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:54

you know nothing but this all u people wanna do is put it down always frst get your facts right then u can say something

Cande
21 Apr 2009 13:56

jah neh

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:53

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:54

you know nothing but this all u people wanna do is put it down always frst get your facts right then u can say something

Cande
21 Apr 2009 13:56

jah neh

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:53

cape town high
21 Apr 2009 13:54

you know nothing but this all u people wanna do is put it down always frst get your facts right then u can say something

Cande
21 Apr 2009 13:56

jah neh

Dolly28
27 Nov 2012 16:28

Slicker Slicker Slicker....... i feel pity fo u d way u r defending ths church. u obviously know nothing. u r ryt there r no snakes, they pray hard. bt wen u comes to making money they take d trophy. everything is money. Let me break down some of the offerings & tel me if im lying. 
R33- Jesus died at the age of 33
R50- the story of the red bull in the Bible (R50 note is red)
R1440- Revelation 7,(144000 sealed)
R2012- The end of year 2012
R------ Offer your age
R........Offer the total of yo family ages
Ever heard of giving tithe of your dream salary?
All or nothing (campaigns)

i need a cup of strong coffee to list ol offerings.....5 of my wasted years


Only TVSA members can reply to this thread. Click here to login or register.






LATEST ARTICLES

Scandal! Teasers - December 2024

A wedding proposal, a familiar face returns and Ndumiso basks in the glory of his apparent heroism.


Binnelanders Teasers - December 2024

Joe tells his sister about his visit to their father’s mistress. Ouch!


New on TV today: Thursday 21 November

BBC Earth takes you around the Solar System and a Wicked special airs on E! ahead of the film premiere.


My Naam is Farah Teasers - December 2024

Immigration officials turn up at Farah’s home. And then she receives a call from a ghost.


Survivor 45: See who lovestruck Austin's dating now

Are Austin and Dee still together? Find out here as we reflect on the season.


New on TV today: Wednesday 20 October

Our Oceans, narrated by Barack Obama, airs on Netflix and Dave returns to Disney+ for Season 3.


Summertide Teasers - December 2024

Martin grapples with Charlie’s ex and Gavin finds Rebecca at the beach. Sunset, silhouette...


The River 6 on Mzansi Magic Teasers - December 2024

Cold, warmer, hot. Veronica and Kedibone get closer to the truth.


Kelders van Geheime Teasers - December 2024

Dewald calls Annette, Shireen, Edmund and Du Toit together to sign the adoption papers.


New on TV today: Tuesday 19 November 2024

Quirky drama Interior Chinatown drops on Disney+ and Jamie: Fast and Simple begins on BBC Lifestyle.

LATEST SITE ACTIVITY


More activity at TVSA Central



LATEST SOAPIE TEASERS



LATEST SOAPIE TEASERS





×
×

You browser doesn't have Flash, Silverlight, Gears, BrowserPlus or HTML5 support.