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Darkie vs Whitey

Written by KeleFabulous from the blog Cherry Baby on 17 Sep 2007
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This is something that has been on my mind alot recently and it might sound...no, IT IS SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL and I suggest you leave this blog now if you are a sensitive person when it comes to discussing issues of race. So I've warned you nhe, and if you do stick around I need your honest opinions and suggestions as to the "accuracy" of what I'm about to say and ways, I know there has to be ways, of overcoming them and moving forward. And another thing, this is not some darkie who won't get off her butt and do something instead of waiting for people to do things for her. This is a darkie who sees ~~gaps~~ cracks in our "rainbow nation". This is a darkie who sees people out to sabotage (though they may not be aware of it) this rainbow nation. This is a darkie who also knows that sometimes there are rivers you have to cross, and sometimes such rivers are near impossible to cross. And sometimes the near impossible can turn into impossible. This is a darkie who knows and believes sometimes we can turn these impossible into possibles.

I was listening to Bad Boy T and Lupi the other day and the topic was about whites being in high positions in business (note this excludes government) and how they have been at the top for so long they've mastered the art of staying there and also getting their own race there also and keeping us darkies down here. Yes, I did warn you this is controversial.

First off let me just state that I am not a racist and don't think like a racist person. I think this country and its people have been through too much to hold on to such negativity. However, I won't lie and tell you I don't sometimes generalise and/or think or refer to white people as "them" as if they are a different species. Yes, I sometimes do that. But let me support this feeling and thinking by saying that I believe this is 100% normal. I think that with the history that we have in this country this is only a natural way of thinking and feeling. Maybe if I was born out of the apartheid era like our youngsters out there then I wouldn't have preconceived (from all those years) ideas and notions. I also believe same applies to whites (especially the Afrikaans speaking people), coloureds, indians, and whatever colour you may find in this country. We all think like that because it is something that we lived with for so long and something that succeeded in ~~dividing~~ us for so long that it has somehow become a part of us. Over the years this...I'll call it a virus...this virus, has somewhat weakened over the years but it is still there and will continue for as long as we remember. It's not an easy thing, this forgive and "forget".

So as I was saying, white people and their tight grasp on power (business wise). I actually switched stations soon after I heard what they were talking about because this is some "truth" that is uncomfortable for me. It's not nice to hear things like this. It takes us back to "back in the day"...you all know what I'm talking about. So I had a look at my personaly situation and the situations of people around me (by this I mean darkies). I studied for 3 years towards an HR Diploma at what was then called Wits Tech. That was from '99 to 2001. I failed 2 semesters over the course of those years (Accounting which I failed my first year and dropped it halfway thru my second year as I was once again not succeeding with it...and Management of Training - missed the final exam on this one). Why didn't I go back and finish? 2 Reasons: 1. I was absolutely gatvol of res life and just had to leave!!! 2. I knew that if I left res there was an almost certainty that I wouldn't be as dedicated to my classes...the idea of travelling to and fro was something I couldn't fathom. So basically, I became a dropout. I decided I'd correspond, as soon as I found a job. I didn't know it would take 1 whole year for this to happen. This I'm sure alot of you (darkies) can relate to. So eventually I found a job...nothing permanent, in fact, in all the (almost) 4 years that I've been working I have never been permanent! And I've worked for about 6 companies all in all (it happens, when you're a temp). So I've never had a stable job. So an unstable job = no long-term financial commitments = no car and no house (banks will NOT consider you if you're a temp no matter how long you've been working for...I should know, I've worked for 2 banks). And you know us darkies mos, you know how we think/do...once you get a job a million things come up of how you should spend that money...need to help out at home/help out with little sisters/brothers' education....this and that needs fixing and/or upgrading at your parents' house etc etc etc. Somewhere along the line your goals become fuzzy. People tell you you've got a job so why worry about school? You remind yourself over and over again why you went to school and why you need to complete that degree/diploma but something always comes up! So 4 years later I'm still without my Diploma! And guess what? Over the years I've found there's thousands of people out there (mostly whites) who didn't finish their studies but are doing the work they studied for and getting paid the perks that come with it regardless. So I started marketing myself also, hoping I'll get "lucky". No such luck...

The company I work for now is a bank (I won't say which bank...some of you know and some don't). I've heard endless stories of so and so has studied for this and that but look at them, still stuck doing admin work and/or call centre. What race are these people? Black! I'll hear stories like person B (for black) and person W (for white) have the same years of experience and have been in the company the same no. of years and they do the same work BUT person W (white) earns more!!! WTF??? Oh, and look around....who are all the temps in this place? Bo darkie! And who stands a better chance of being promoted? Who has the biggest and nicest house(s), car(s)? White people. One time our company did a survey on the most "educated" people in the bank and this guy came out tops. Apparently he had more degrees than anybody else in the bank, upping even the CEO. Who is he? A darkie. What does he do? Call Centre Agent. *sigh* And my bank specialises in finance. I won't say whether vehicle or housing as this might surely give them away! I always get so frustrated when I'm working on an account and I see someone has made notes in Afrikaans! I think WTF! Why couln't they use English? How the hell am I supposed to know what they're saying??? I get so mad I want to update in my own language. After all, SeTswana is an official language right? Right. But I always tell myself, do not stoop to their level. Be the bigger person you are. I answer my phone in my language though, I figure this no one can fault me for, after all, Setswana IS an official language. Back to my company...we deal in finance. And I keep hearing this statement everywhere "the majority of our clients are Afrikaaners" and I keep thinking no, that can't be right. Do the numbers: how many blacks, english, afrikaans, coloureds, indians etc do we have in this country? Blacks always outnumber! Why don't they outnumber here? Then I took a closer look. And yes, some would say 65%(this is not an official figure) of our clients are Afrikaans speaking people. How many Afrikaans speaking people do we have? And still, they are our majority clientele. What does that tell you? Who's got the moola?

My sister is a Systems Analyst. She once found out (on the previous company she worked for) that she was earning less than her counterparts. And my sister is a hardworker. I've never seen anyone as dedicated to their job as she is. She sometimes worked till 11 at night, every night; and sometimes even weekends. Her colleagues did so too but not as much as she did. She quit a month after she found out about the salary difference. She's now at another company where she got passed up for a promotion, a promotion everybody thought she had bagged as she was more than qualified and had all the right attributes, skills etc. for. Who got the job? A white woman. And this woman was a close friend of hers. Note I said was. She fought to find out why she got passed up and the other lady was chosen and boy, did she make waves! Not enough to get her what she wanted. But enough to let them know she will not be walked all over and next time I'm sure they'll think twice. Enough for her to lose her friend too. *sigh*

So as they say, white people have been in this game for soooo long and know how to play it well and outsmart us. Us darkies are nubies to this whole thing. We don't know the first thing about how to get there and how to stay there. We don't know the first thing about how to get our brothers and sisters up there too! The people who know this, they say, will NOT help us get there! So they have the power and they're not letting go!

Do you believe/agree with this? If so, how can we overcome (note I did not say "fight"). U'll find sometimes we are just as good, or even better than them in business but how do we free ourselves from these shackes that are holding us back? How do we get up there, stay there, and show them that it's actually OK for all of us to be on top? How do we show them they need us as much as we need them? How do we overcome this disease that is apartheid and become one, not just in word, but in spirit and in action also? How do we help them let go?

36 Comments

Jordan
17 Sep 2007 05:17

Reflecting....

Fingolfin
17 Sep 2007 05:18

As much as I agree that our country has numerous problems relating to race, I think one should be careful when recounting personal experiences and extrapolating them as a generalised phenomenon. For instance, I can recount the same number of stories about white people who get passed over for positions because of their skin colour (heck, I didn't even know black people were having the same problems).

I try not to infer too much, because sometimes people blame race for more than it's worth. People often need scapegoats that are easier to swallow than the truth, and race is an easy target. the truth is often more complicated than that. One must be careful of crying wolf too much.

The law is your friend, I say. That's the main benefit of our constitution: if everyone who had a valid complaint about race in the workplace just used the ample resources that have been set aside for this, then eventually it will no longer be a problem.

spice
17 Sep 2007 05:39

Kele man don't do this, this is too sensetive for many of us and I am emotional as we speak because what you have described is me ,my evryday life the challenges I have to face daily the scars that will neva dissapear and many more @kele quit whateva isht you are doing at the moment and write,write for a living I truly beleive it's your calling is from up above ,you have the ability to unbottle people's feelings especially mine that's all it takes to be a writer ( I am not a writer ya'll, pls forgive me this is the longest paragraph I'have ever written since I started blogging all thanks to kele Truly Kele i respect your abilities girl do something

Username
17 Sep 2007 05:51

The law is your friend, I say. That's the main benefit of our constitution: if everyone who had a valid complaint about race in the workplace just used the ample resources that have been set aside for this, then eventually it will no longer be a problem.

With everything I have I wished that was true even in the Private Sector. Make waves only if you can surf.

Its a debate that has no end and no solutions. Personal experience creates hostility because you have the wounds to show. Forgive and forget is a concept that exists in the perfect world.

Nice article.

spice
17 Sep 2007 06:01

did I mention that the company I work for is owned by whiteys so I have had racism,marginalisation,segregation,seperation,etc stare me in the face and the only thing that keeps me going is my faith and i know that being

sponono
17 Sep 2007 06:23

eish Kele your piece is honest and real...and some people who havent been in your sitation, wouldnt understand why you feel this way...and some peolpe are not aware of these issues for instance how the white-powers-that-be have mastered the art of window dressing and how your white collegue might be earning triplle your salary..but because of where we come from, you are just thrilled of having coupla people reporting to you and being able to afford a fancy car, a house and to send money home, and to spend (flaunt) money with other so called "black diamonds" and its not easiy to see this because that white colegue who reports to you but earns double your salary, he wont flaunt it instead he's siphoned it to other less known business ventures and of course he wont hang around fancy places with you...so at the end we are fooled into believing we've arrived, when actually the white people still have major control of the corporate world.....my hope is that we'll get there slowly but sure....(re:that white woman being promoted if you read the BMF articel in the newspaper-the BMF chairman strongly opposes the promotion of white women..so now that makes sense if I read your story..

i hope some white exec ir reading this and maybe he'll comment on what hinders black progress in the corporate world.......as for you Kele..finish that HR diploma pronto no matter what...it might come handy someday I think

KeleFabulous
17 Sep 2007 06:26

<<I think one should be careful when recounting personal experiences and extrapolating them as a generalised phenomenon. For instance, I can recount the same number of stories about white people who get passed over for positions because of their skin colour>>
i believe in order to clarify on the topic at hand sometimes one needs to give examples and if personal experience is there then this only reinforces the statement made. Yes, we have all heard of affirmative action and employment equity and that's the main reason why some white people get passed over for a job/promotion.

<<I try not to infer too much, because sometimes people blame race for more than it's worth. People often need scapegoats that are easier to swallow than the truth, and race is an easy target. the truth is often more complicated than that. One must be careful of crying wolf too much. >>
actully you are right here, to a point. yes, people often do use the race card to justify their inability to succeed. by the same token some people choose not to see race as the reason or any other reason for that matter because it steers them away from what they're trying to achieve. but, in the end, after one has tried and tried, one is left with nothing but the bare truth. and speaking of affirmative action and employment equity, alot of people have argued it adds no value at the end of hte day because it states only the no's as the main relevant point but does not classify job grading as falling under this. thus u can have a company that complies with AA and EE BUT the people of colour only fill a quota, at a certain level, and not at ALL LEVELS. this is one of the reasons that drives black people to start their own businesses.

The law is your friend, I say. That's the main benefit of our constitution: if everyone who had a valid complaint about race in the workplace just used the ample resources that have been set aside for this, then eventually it will no longer be a problem.
people have lost their jobs by "using the ample resources that have been set aside". just because you see something's not right and you take action against it doesn't mean you won't ruffle some feathers. those same feathers, if they can, will use the very "ample resources" they have at their disposal to get rid of you. and the problem with the law is there are many different interpretation of them and one can use the law to his/her own advantage and to the detriment of the next person because at the end of the day that same person was acting "within the law"

Well said @ Username!

@ spice like I have said up there, as hard as it may be, sometimes u can turn the impossible into the possible! or at least, u can try, that way u will have started something that someone at some point, will finish!

monchooza
17 Sep 2007 06:28

kele nice topic and well nami i have first hand eperience when it comes to this thing yokuthi person B is just getting way more than person B, even if they have the same experience in the field. here's my stori= i used to work for woolies and when i was hired it was a gruop of us People B with just People W, wewere all hired to do the same job, until the day when i had to work in my bosses office, so oviyas i did a bit of snooping and found out that the two people W eraned way more than us People B. and this made me flippin angry so i contronted my boss about it. knowing exactly that he would be very angry that i looked at the confidential documents, and guess what he told me.......he said people W earned more cause their lives were more expensive than ours people B, i got so angry stating to him the facts why we should be getting the same pay.... and the boss wangivala umlomo by giving me the same rate people B had i had to promise ukuthi i wouldnt say a word to People B about what i saw and what i have been told.

Jordan
17 Sep 2007 06:36

I regard myself a racist simply because I do acknowledge the differences between races some of my judgements and actions towards people sometimes depend on the race of that person. But because I have self-respect and respect in other people, I don’t become disrespectful (hope I make sense). What I mean is that I don’t belive in “one settler on bullet”, but I am sensitive (as in aware) to what people of different races do, how they act, ect and I have deloped a way of “handling” people of different races (bearing in mind that people are different) .

Having said this, there are countless stories of black people being marginalised in jobs. Most Black people are scared to speak up because more often than not, they are just grateful to have jobs. Thing is: we are sooo screwed up as a country and we are too busy trying to be polite to each other that don’t address important matters such as these. Only affirmative action can save us. Clearly, if you gon give employers the freedom to choose who to hire or who not to, then they won’t hire Black people (judging by the current state of affairs). Black people need to believe in themselves and must work hard at empowering themselves. If the government applies AA effectively, we should all be okay in a 150 years or so....

"There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequals” by someone who knows his ish!!!

belz
17 Sep 2007 06:40

Good gaad Kele, as spice said yu need to do something about your writing skills, i know exactly what yu are talkinga bout, whities here have car allowances , darkies no!!! whites can go out of the office wheneva the hell they pliz, darkies no.this pisses me off so much that at some point this lady sent an email in afrikaans and it was an email where everybody had to respond, i responed in Zulu telling them that i dont understand what she wrote there, everybody jumped bethi they dont understand what im saying but nobody said this when they read the frist email, hayi kele love im getting pissed off just writing about this but yu are a very good writer shem, yesses!!! and another thing i know exactly which bank yu talking about.

Lekese
17 Sep 2007 06:43

I read this topic and went back to work, trying to forget about it, but hack I can't!!!

A couple of years ago, in this company I work for the positions of Marketing Director and marketing Manager were vacant. this black dude assumed leadership responsibility for the brand until a Director was appointed. Whe the director was appointed, a white she, she told the dude he was still too young for a Marketing manager position, therefore she brought a white male, from the company she previously worked for. The white was 3months older than the black dude and had a sales certificate qualification ( did I mention the black dude has an MBA?) He was told he needed to be developed!!

Last year a new role was created in my department (Finance). I was asked to take care of that job until they made a decision whether to develop it into a full time position of if they needed to revamp responsibilities in the department. Neway a decision was to have it as a fulltime position, higher than my current job and of course better paying. The requirements were a B degree.

I am a black female with a BCom degree and Honours in Economics. Went in for an interview, and was notified later that I did not get the position as I stil needed to develop further for me to perform optimally in it ( talk about the perpetual development of a black person). Before this, there had never been any issues about my performance.

The job goes to a white female with only a matric. I was asked to train her, imagine me train her. I refused and took the CCMA route. Sure they paid me,but guess what, i am now looked upon as someone who is not a team player.

Fact of the matter is, as long as white people still have a control of the economy, the black person will continue being marginalised.

belz
17 Sep 2007 06:45

monchooza i feel you, this W person at work always tells me that yena my rent money she spends all of that kuGrocery and their life is expensive!!!!!!

belz
17 Sep 2007 06:48

and these people go to presentations bethi they are a 100% BEE company, hayi suka!!!!!!

presha
17 Sep 2007 06:49

Eish Kele, valid points u've raised there, I'd luv 2 comment but just don't know how 2 say whats on my mind, without sounding like a racist-lazy-darkie.
Wil b back 2 comment later.

KeleFabulous
17 Sep 2007 07:02

lol @ Belz! *shhhh*
shuu nothing irks me more than the language issue! i did afrikaans in high school but am one of those who firmly believe if i should know the other person's language then they too should make an effort and i must say i haven't come across that many but when i do come across i somehow manage to "remember" my Afrikaans taal!

@ spopo...i feel u. and u know what else i'm gonna do once i get it? start my own company! sometimes u have to let go of the people that don't acknowledge and enhance ur skills and value. and that is so true about how white people neva flaunt what they have, unlike us darkies, because this is such a new thing to us and we want everyone to know and see.

@ Jordan i guess if your definition of a racist is that then i agree with u 100% and admit i too am guilty! and why are we afraid to speak out and take action? because there's too much at stake, ie our jobs!

sbu001
17 Sep 2007 07:04

KelefaB:This is my take on it.

One of my friends at varsity once said "if you can't make a white man smile u will suffer my friend".That has been something that I have been thinking about for the last 18months after completing my degrees.

It has not been an easy 18months I must say,but hey being the darkie I am just hanging in there as I am doing my articles and I am halfway through them by now.Here you all have the same qualifications(including the whities).One thing that makes you better is how you market yourself from the begining,then they will assess you from there.But to be honest as it such a whitey dominated environment they will more often than not outsmart you.

What to do?
Just make them friends ,learn as much as possible from them .Make sure by the time you move to another company you know every tip in the book to make it to the top coz there is no other way to make it to the top.This what they call Networking.

Regarding increases and promotions.
The fact is if you were the head of a company and your friend who is black was looking for promotion with another white guy (whom you don't know).Who would you choose?That's how it happens.

sponono
17 Sep 2007 07:07

Lekese, I feel your story...when you want to bring an issue up and you are afraid of being seen as a "troublemaker" or that you are not a tem player..so most of us keep quite about issues..and this brings me back to what someone said about the law being on your side....well it looks good on paper..-only a person who's been there knows what its like

KeleFabulous
17 Sep 2007 07:09

sbu001
17 Sep 2007 07:22

Don't get me wrong guys,where I am they make every attempt in the book to frustrate you by not giving you work or expose you only to small businesses.But hey as I said smile as if nothing happened ,be the pretender they are.Learn every tip in the bookk from them and you will eventually get that dream job.I am not doing that here as I won't be here after 18months.So I don't really care what happening here.

sponono
17 Sep 2007 07:25

@sbu001 I like your attitude (it has worked for me a lot I must say)

KeleFabulous
17 Sep 2007 07:31

Lekese that is soo hectic! and u know one wouldn't really believe it unless it happened to them or someone close to them. and the problem is, they don't even try that hard to hide what's in your face!

Sbu001 i'm glad u highlighted some possible solutions to this issue. but what u say will not be of much help to the average black graduate out there because from your point no 1 about marketing yourself...most young black people don't even know how to go about this! all we know is: draft up a cv and fax/email to the relevant companies and hope for a reply. u r fresh out of your nappies and suddenly u have to face the real world! and what's worse there are very few (if any at all) people u know who can guide u so...

about networking. yes, i believe u do have to make friends with these people. now this is something that may make or break me. I DON'T BUY FACE. yes, i'll try and be friends but if i don't like u then i don't like u and won't pretend to. so networking works for some and for others like me, i guess it'll depend on the situation and what i personally put into it.

another thing i have a problem with: nepotism. it is very high, esp in banks. u'll find the whole family working for one company. and if a position comes up and u tell them of your cousin/friend who's qualified for the position what do they tell you?- they have to apply thru so and so agency. *sighl*

there's this other lady who just took over managerial position in my department. she's black. before she came we had a manager, 5 team leaders and a staff of about 85. the previous manager (a white lady) left and this one came in. now remember this lady was recruited from outside, not inside the company, so she doesn't know jack about procedure/systems/policies etc etc etc. and we have the most complicated system i have ever seeen in all the years i've worked. do u know what they did? they scrapped all the teamleading positions so now everybody, all 90 or so of us, report to only 1 person! poor lady hasn't even sunk her feet in and she has to deal with simple issues like who's late and who's taking leave etc to bigger things that managers have to deal with. now i call htat sabotage. even the previous manager used to say it was too many people to manage on her own (and she had help) but htis...but to tell u the truth, i think she will prove htem all wrong. she's certainly won the hearts and support of just about everyone, including the white people.

Lex
17 Sep 2007 07:42

Girl,I know exactly what u talking about.I used to work for a major supermarket outlet(which I cannot metnion for obvious reasons)as a trainee manager,but the way blacks were treated there...We were always overlooked for positions in favour of our light skinned counterparts (I wanted to use the words brothers and sisters,but am too angry).And the manager didnt like me,not even one bit acutally it more like he was threatened by me coz I was damn good at my work,very outspoken (hey I can only take you sh_t for so long,and when the time comes for me to burst u wont like it),had my first baby (a blue Uno Mia 1400:yeah baby top of the range)and had taken a turn to/at tertiary(even though my diploma was incomplete at the time).He was threatened because he started there as a trolley pusher and I got there as a trainee manager,so he thought I was eyeing his position because our store was the best within our region and the branch manager would get big bonuses for that.To say I loathed the man and his broers and susters is an understatement because of the way they treated us blacks.At that company management does not go out for lunch,the deli cooks us food for lunch so when the food is ready they would call us (well actually they would call the madam of the store - the white admin manageress)and she would gather her broers en susters,they'd go eat and only call us after they were done,so were expected to eat masalela a bone (their leftover food).So this one day I got up from the wrong side of the bed and went to the deli and told the lady there that she should call me when the food was ready,she then told me that she always called the 'madam' when it was time to eat,so I told her the madam was busy and that she was the one who sent me(yes, I lied) so come lunch time,she called me,and off I went to call boAbuti le boAusi ba ka.We ate b4 die mense and when we were done I went to call 'them'.Iyoo,hulle was gatvol when they realised that 'we' ate b4 them,and they called me to ask what had happened,
'Madam': What happened?
Lex: with what?
M:the food.
L: what about the food?
M:who ate?
L:us.
M:Julle mense het voor ons ge-eet
L:yes,why is there a problem?
M:Ja, we always eat b4 u.
L:No today I decided we should eat before you guys
M:Why?Now look almost all the food is gone.
L:Now you know how it feels like to eat 'oorskiet'.
And I got my pretty behind out of the office to go work.When I got to customer service I helped an old tannie with a big smile on my face and she took me by the hand to go to the manager's office and told them what a good employee I was and that they should hire people like me.The tannie left and I said to them "So Mr manager are you not gonna congratulate me on a job well done and he said "What for" and I said oh,ok,off to work then and left them in the office. Iyoo,they were fuming mad,their faces all pink.About a month after that incident I resigned.
PS: I am not a racist,I only become one when my hand is forced.

Toxic
17 Sep 2007 07:45

Great article Kele. I didn't read any of the responses as they might cloud what I wanna say.

I always refer to history cause that's where the answers lie. It's pointless to even think you can shy away from reference to racial issues or even apartheid (cause some people are already on that GET OVER IT ALREADY tip) to answer some of the issues you raised.

History-more specifically black history- was SUCCESSFULLY designed to ensure that black people ended up at the lowest level in the food chain (look at our education, look at the job opportunities that were available to us, look at the forced removals that ensured economic imprisonment). It is no wonder then that the black child got out of high school aspiring to get a diploma/degree/higher diploma and finding a secure job and work towards a secure pension etc, while on the other side of the coin, white kids were being groomed to be entrepreneurs!

I work at a University (some of u know which one that is, some of u don't) that's supposed to be amongst the leading universities in South Africa and maybe Africa. Management is largely white and there are scatterlings of black managers and the University is said to have transformed. The majority of dministrators, receptionists, switchboard operators and drivers/messangers (i.e Support Staff) is BLACK. No guessing how difficult it is to change the direction of your career once you've been an administrator for years-cause you're now a guru; you've earned your stripes!

No one is making anything easy for black people in "this University" to grow in other areas or make sudden shifts/changes to their careers. Heck they have a policy in place that states that one cannot be promoted two salary levels higher that the post they currently hold so economic empowerment will naturally come at a pace that is convenient for the university. They have cancelled all financial aid for staff that wants to study and have put in place another policy that states that you must pay for your fees and get refunded when you successfully complete (pass) your studies. A staff member can naturally not study FULL-TIME and the part-time programme is structured in a way that ensures that you do not complete your degree in less that 6 years.....it's like dangling that carrot in front of my face!

Govt has put in place BEE/AA policies which seek to address the imbalances of the past; this should be commendable and it does make sense. My only gripe is that these two terms have become so fraught with corruption that they no longer serve the people that are supposed to be benefitting. i know a lot of black people that are still struggling to secure employment; a lot that don't get govt funding for their projects/small businesses; a lot for whom these opportunities are unattainable and it's all because of all those fat cats who think only of their pockets and award tenders to themselves and their families and friends----families, friends and relatives that already have 9 to 5s!

If any black person can start their own business and be a success at it, then good for you. All the others will continue to hustle for these opportunities that are supposed to be there but are never quite within reach.

sbu001
17 Sep 2007 07:50

Kelefab:
I am not saying that the guys will know everything fresh from varsity.That's the role we should play as the guys(darkie) who have been around in the companies for longer than the new recruits.If you can take a new recruit and tell them how to basically survive in the their new jobs(by just telling them the do's and don'ts).This will at least make feel at ease.

Trust its a very scary situation not having to see even a single darkie at ur workplace.I know it won't be easy but to make sure we get there we have to be smart about it.

MamaOmpha
17 Sep 2007 07:52

I have a friend who works for one of the big petroleum companies in SA. She's been working in the marketing department for about 3 years now. Last year most of the black employees in the same department realised that most white employees are more successful that them. eg. most white people had cars owned their own homes etc So the issue was raised and they demanded to know if they were getting paid the same salary since they were doing the same jobs. The company said its against company policy to know somebody else's salary (understandbly) instead the company offered to bring in a company accountant to do a budget (lack of a better word) for each employee including white people, where they would compare black people's expenses and white people expenses. The accontant came back and said that from all the information that he has collected he has concluded that black people do not possess material things as white people because black people have to take care of extended families, black people have more babies to look after than white peple.
A few weeks after that the marketing department received an anonymous e-mail with one of the white people payslip basically stating that its true that white people are getting paid more. The case was taken to the CCMA and the company was ordered to pay all the black employees the monies owed to them.

When I was still temping I discovered also that white temps r paid more than black temps. when u are temping you are usually sent to a company alone. So one time the recruitement company got a client who neede about 10 temps for data capturing because their staff was going on company paid holiday. So I befriended this white girl and on the last day of temping for that company she was telling me how she was going to spend that money. I realise that she was getting paid more than I am.

Dimago
17 Sep 2007 08:01

Nice Topic Kels...but i must say this does not end with them white folks...Indian people do it as well. Right now here at work, bcos my boss is an indian, the indian subordiantes are getting all the opportunities and exposure. Tha manager makes sure she taks them to the important meetings, introduces them to the right people. I'm new here and even though i'm more senior than them, i find that they get more meaningful work than i do. The excuse they use is that i still have to get used to the environment, but i see it as a form of racism....

As Letta Mbulu says : Not yet uhuru (we are not yet free).

We as black people have to be liberated from mental slavery, cause unless we see ourselves as worthy of where we are we will not be pulling our brothers and sisters up.

Fingolfin
17 Sep 2007 08:02

Maybe I'm just naive but I had no idea so much of this was going on. Man. You all should come work where I work, it's way cooler than these places you all speak of!

Lex
17 Sep 2007 08:03

@KFab:Regarding the language issue,I also believe that I will speak your language only if and when u make an effort (not mockery)to speak Setswana.So when I was in my bad moods I refused to speak Afrikaans (and I got an A for it in matric),when they said something to me in their language I would reply in my mother tongue,and they'd be pissed like sh_t.(tl,tl,tl,tl,tl)

Lekese
17 Sep 2007 08:14

Until the gov racks the whip on companies that do not meat the Employment Equity guidelines, nothing is going to change.

The company I work for does not meet the EE requirements, so what happens is that every year we simply pay the penalty for not meeting the requirements. The gov is happy this company paid.

The gov should implement a policy that prohibits any company that does not meet the requirements from operating. For instrance how long should the company I work for carry on paying penalties before the gov takes action?

Sbuhleza
17 Sep 2007 08:59

kuyefana nje ... some companies do meet the gov requirements for AA and BEE but all the black folks in there are not given any work to do and they are underpaid. It happened to me that my supervisor was not giving me any work to do and i have many meetings with him raising my concern about my career not growing, the only answer i cud get was "we still waiting for new project" and i asked him why i was hired and why did he lied to me during the interview coz i did ask why the position was available and he said is because they have many project that their current stuff cant handle it, and he mumbled. a month lated i had that the person who was employed for the same position as me was getting more molla, i demanded it too, they took it up and the toppest manager declined it. I started to look for another job and i got one a month later with R 85 000 more, it was even more that what i asked for in my company, i took the offer with pleasure. and i told them that im leaving because i cant sit and look at my career going down the drain and i cant stand being underpaid, they asked is there is anything they can do i told them that next time they hire people they must be sure they have project and the must pay them well ... as for me i can never work for them im so needed some where else, and that was it

mathata
17 Sep 2007 10:39

yooo this people..............,i was working for this shop(clothing) my boss he hate m becauseI was outspoken person,so they hired 5 people after me,but i was still a temp,so he start this thing .......lets go out so we can eat n talk abt our life)...my boss.so i refused he told m im going to work only 4days until it become one day,I left,but now im based in Canada i went home so I have 2 change my Dollars, this people they harass m,i endup nearly crying so they ask m potso ka potso, they want my passport ,they ask me where do I get this money,dipotso tsa botlaela,so it means they where asking them self where darkie takes this money,so I told them that is so hurting when people in my own coutry treat me like that still where im staying im a kwerekwere,so the was this darkie Boy he was acting like them,So i told him i feel shame for you.. you see this W now u turn on m,n he was like im sorry my sister im working you know this people(with magweregwere voice,I respond n say I work hard 4 this money n turn,even now I aplyd 4 franchise they dont give m the right respond bcz im black n young, they say there is no way they can help, email is for what??????,,,,,,,,,,they must get a life .ke kwatile,thi subject is so sensetive

Tshd21
17 Sep 2007 11:22

I recently resigned at this company after working for 2 yrs. I started as an intern and remained on the same position for 2 bloody yrs. W people came and were hired right under my nose and earned better salaries than me. But I continued working there because I knew I wanted experience, and since the company was one of the best selling daily in SA, I knew that by the time I leave, I would be with much more.

But me thinks that s long s black people are the ones who are always on the streets striking, cleaning white people's mess at home or offices, the ones that take practically raise their children and are still suspects should something disappear around the office, we still have a long way to go.

But other black people do give whites the power sometimes. Like when u r on the queue at a shop, black sisters just look at u but when a white person walks through, they jump on their feet to assist them.
I have been on the waiting list for a driver's test for almost 2 months now. On Thursday, the traffic dept sent me an sms with a ref number saying that there was a cancellation and I was going to test the following day at 12, but I needed to go to the Midrand station to comfirm. Only to get here and be told - in a rude manner by a black person, who even said *bleep!* off in between - that they were short staffed on Fri. I though that was the typical incompetency tsa traf dept, but when a white person with the same sms and date came through, the guy explained to her exactly why it happened, in a calm manner might I add, and he even told her to leave her numbers so that they can call her should someone cancel again. WTF was that all about?

Cande
17 Sep 2007 11:26

i will comment tomorrow.

Brown Shuga
17 Sep 2007 12:51

Shooo guys, this is hectic...

I guess I've been fortunate coz I haven't experienced any of these things personally and strangely I've worked in a large Afrikaner-male-dominated mining company for years.

Appointments/recruitment:
I have however come across managers who would, at the end of the selection process, try and come up with tricks to appoint a white person over a black person. The solution is to have a strong HR person that will be able to put their foot down when the ish happens.
It also helps if the HR manager is supportive because they usually are the people the line managers run to when the HR Consultants/Officers challenge their shady decisions.

Experience has taught me that as long as there is no detailed EE plan in an organisation, (per department), there will always be these fights about why did you appoint white over black etc....if the panel knows the position is supposed to be filled by a black/coloured or whatever person, then that's it....

Salaries:
As for paying different salaries for the same job/skills etc well, we have a salary scale for every job level and people in the specific grade shouldn't be paid less than the minimum/entry rate. There's entry, mid and max.
People end up floating somewhere in the middle due to yrs of experience in the job, if their skill is rare or sometimes determined by competition in the market...like when you get an offer from outside and we counter offer, obviously you move from the minimum to somewhere in the range....

One other thing that we have to remember is that once you are in the job, perfomance counts more than qualification....so you might be employed with your MBA earning R1 000 and me with my certificate earning R500 and it happens that I perform better than you and get an increase of 20% while you get 2% so eventually I will get to earn the same as you and if you keep on slacking, I will even earn more than you do.

The Law:
Fingolfin advised that you use the law and yes, like Lekese's situation, it's not the easy road but for the wrongs to be corrected, you have to take action guys....
You have to use what the govt (the same one we criticize all the time) has made available to us.
There is NO reason for two temp data capturers (black vs white) to earn different salaries if they are doing the same job. You can put a stop to it but YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO STAND THE HEAT that comes with it.
Madiba is where he is today because he was NOT afraid of the heat.

Conclusion:
Now, you don't have to go to jail for 27 years but know that doing the right thing means that you will NOT be popular.
Decide, are you there to be popular or to get ahead? If you are there to get ahead, are you doing the best you can? Are you treating the business like it was yours?
Do you respect your job?

My demonstration of doing the right thing at the risk of not being popular...here we go:

Now guys I know we always joke about it but honestly, I worry about people who spend the whole day on TVSA (this is one of those times I don't care about being popular) .
I really hope that you guys don't neglect your work...I would hate for someone to lose their job because they spend the whole day here. You don't have to listen to me but why not rather allocate specific times that you will come to the site rather than be here from 08:00 - 17:00 ....unless of course your boss doesn't give you anything to do....
The thing is someone might be reading this and asking

Beyonce
17 Sep 2007 13:41

Eish Shuga... you are so right! I presume the ppl here either work for themselves or their uncles thts the ONLY way I can explain it.. he he he just joking guys dont bite my head off

Cande
18 Sep 2007 09:54

Madiba is where he is today because he was NOT afraid of the heat. I agree with this 100%, if people who believe they are being ripped off what is rightfully theirs then the onlt way is to fight and stand up for themselves.

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           ooh la la

a woman can neva have 2 many

                          deliciously pink

the man of my dreams

                     looove rough necks!

uya bona ke but'wam if u were a lil less skinny then bengizo hamba nawe!

hihihi even the ones that just got married can't help themselves!

but how can they with a face like this?

and a body like that?