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Ladies first OR Gentlemen first OR just first come first served

Written by Feza from the blog Refilwe's fizzle on 17 Mar 2008
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Last week one guy posted a column in the Pretoria News about how culture and the media were still pulling us back to acient years regarding how women were treated. He declared his love and respect for women and disagreed with the way TV ads always displayed women as trophees or blondes. 

Another man in Reporter.co.za (where i'm also a writer there) asked why women had to be treated any different and special. He even said he hated being a gentle man.

My surprise is, isn't it amazing and interesting how people can have opposite views about the exact same thing! 

Below I paste their views: I'll start with the good man and the bad one will follow. Which man do you agree with? what are you own views regarding gender equality and respect for women.

The Good:
In a South Africa today we talk about gender parity and the liberation of the women yet there are a number of things that are making our course difficult. The first of those is what I call “double jeopardy”. Here, we all know that (particularly African) men still pay lobola for their brides. 

This is fair and well and I am not against lobola. It is part of our culture and as such it has a significant meaning.
That is (loosely put) to bind not only the two love birds but to create a lasting bond between their respective families.
The problem I have with the practice of lobola in other instances is where it is done by those who do not understand its meaning. To them it means trade – the man buys the wife and the wife becomes a commodity. 

Today we have black diamonds who have wallets as heavy as an ounce of gold and who can easily throw cash, cows and all that is required for lobola, but some of these men are not educated about culture to an extent that after they had paid lobola, they then treat their wives worse than slaves, this while they benefit from other transformation programmes like BEE. 

So the essence of this is that let’s educate our children about our cultures and maybe we may contribute to the struggle for total emancipation of women, our mother, wives, sisters and daughters.
The other fraternity that hinders the women’s fight for liberation is the media, particularly in the area of advertising.
Adverts sometimes continue to perpetuate the notion that the woman’s place is in the kitchen. With the exception of a few adverts like Mr Muscle, most others are about women cooking, washing, cleaning and doing “olden-times” women chores. 

Take Tastic rice for instance, the kids say the rice tastes like their mother’s rice, In the Robertson’s advert it is the woman who cooks for her parents; sta soft – the kid says goodnight mom when he smells the jersey; the OMO, Sunlight, Surf and even Maq Maq, the people responsible for doing the washing are women.
I can count a number of other adverts that are really taking us back to old days of patriarchal myths. The interesting part is that adverts about cars are about men and boys. 

The Mercedes has a boy who plants a small Mercedes so that it grows; the Toyota Yaris advert depicts a daddy who drives the young boy to the party, in the Hyundai advert it is a man who talks about the safety of the car.
It is most important to pay attention here because of the influence that television has on our children.
The point I’m trying to make is that the struggle for total emancipation of women is everyone’s responsibility.
Thus we cannot plant a seed of patriarchy and expect to reap the fruit of equality or gender parity. 

The life I live (as with a number of other men) is the one where I cook, wash dishes, clean, do laundry, change nappies, fix the car and share all these responsibilities with my woman.
I rest my case.
(The opinions I raised about the different brands in this article are not meant to harm them and are without prejudice, and are not those of the newspapers that publish this article; I hope they see them in the light of nation-building)
Andrew Makhiwesizwe Motha,
Arcadia


The Bad:
I hate being a gentleman

By N. Ntsane
N. Ntsane he will treat women as he sees fit.

Some people (mostly women) immediately label me as sexist when I tell them that. They say I do not want to respect women or treat them the way that they “should” be treated (who determines that by the way?). And they wonder if I will ever get married at this rate! My question is: what is a gentleman and why in the world should I be one?
The emotional aspects of this argument can be sensed more from the female side than the men, except those who have been made to adopt the perspective that it is the “right” thing to do. But why is it right? Why should I show more reverence for the female than for the male?

A gentleman, I’m told, is someone who “treats women well, opens doors and respects women, puts their needs first” etc. So it seems that treating women well gets you bracketed into the “gentleman” arena.

What if I do NOT want to get up to give the female my seat in a crowded train/hall/office? What happens when I choose to eat first instead of allowing the female to go before me? Is the age old assumption that “men eat like pigs” the ruling thought when it comes to food? I think not!

The theory of gentleman comes from a European/Victorian era and according to African cultures, this does not apply. The women do not eat first at supper, the males get first preference and most males do not cook at all. This is seen as tribal and oppressive, not allowing women the freedom to be treated as equals. To a large extent, this is true; there were those men who treated their wives as slave. Does it mean the females are not respected though?

I treat women as I see fit. Does that mean badly? No, it means I treat them as any human being should be treated. Respect and courtesy are a two way street, not a one way process.

Being a gentleman is culturally specific, even though it is seen as a universal theme and what women expect of men; yet if a man expects his wife to cook for him, it is seen as oppression in the making. And yet, who said the man wants her to cook EVERYDAY? 

There you have it boys and girls: which one is your man!



14 Comments

Feza
17 Mar 2008 06:35

There you have it boys and girls: which one is your man!

Feza
17 Mar 2008 07:14

Come on mense ...

Cande
17 Mar 2008 07:22

LoL Feza, we still reading

sponono
17 Mar 2008 07:27

<<who said the man wants her to cook EVERYDAY?>>

i find this line hilarious.....means i want her to cook nje!!! haawu......hi hi hi

very interesting topic..(i wonder who labeled the first guy good and the second guy bad and why..........but i guess its meant  for ladies to choose  so i'll reserve any comment..sorry

Feza
17 Mar 2008 07:33

@Spo LOL, I labelled them like that because the Good is actually defending and protecting women (I am female) and the second, the Bad, is not on our side. 

I tried to think of any short names for them but the Good and the Bad just came to mind quickly, it does not necessarily mean they are right or wrong per se.

faraimagic
17 Mar 2008 07:33

imfollowing spo's comment......reserving my comment for now! mara very interesting topic......taking down some facts!!!if i must say..

Porsch
17 Mar 2008 07:37

hey there

here it goes>>>>>>

you know what neah people can call me old fashioned or whatever i dont care, but with these women independence days women and men are loosing it, and i'm afraid that in generations to come we wont know the difference between a man and a women.  

there is a reason why God created a man & woman,until people understand that then we will not have any confusion in terms of respect and values etc

What if I do NOT want to get up to give the female my seat in a crowded train/hall/office?  its more like a child saying why should i give an old women a seat? this man's statement is disgracefull aahgg!!!!!

sponono
17 Mar 2008 07:43

I treat women as I see fit. Does that mean badly? No, it means I treat them as any human being should be treated.

 Feza... I thik this statement of his actually sounds like he's on your side...because the way he see's fit is actually positive...
.BUT i think some women have this problem of wanting it both ways, e.g most women want "equal treatment"  (whateva that means...coz whe you think about it people are not really equal in a sense of having the same abilitites and strengths etc...LOL)...yet when they get the equality treatment...e.g respect and humanity and courtesy....they still expect more...e.g to be treated like fragile species...to be handled with care,.....its quite tricky...thats why I agree with the Bad guy....being a gentleman is culturaly specific (and indivisually)specific....

carino
17 Mar 2008 07:47

The life I live (as with a number of other men) is the one where I cook, wash dishes, clean, do laundry, change nappies, fix the car and share all these responsibilities with my woman.
I rest my case.
   You are straight from heaven!

Madame
17 Mar 2008 08:08

The whole thing is just an egg and chicken issue, we will debate until who knows when. Nowadays it's a dog eat dog world. Imagine for "bad guy" he's maybe some junior employee, no higher education and he has this tough as nails woman as his boss. He knows his livelihood depends on working under this woman, obeying her every command. To him women have become as threatenng as the next man and therefore must be treated the same way. His arguments though are weak cause I've never understood the whole concept of men opening doors for women, giving up your seat for her, those are irrelevant things that most women find annoying anyway. If he was talking about intervening for her wen someone is attacking her then that would be a better argument.
The good guy hmmm, just pondering all his statements, I think if women appeared less desperate to get married  this whole lobola thing would not be such a big deal and women would not put themselves under the pressure of cooking, doing laundry stuff that they do when they want to appear "domesticated". 

Feza
17 Mar 2008 08:08

I hear your point Sponono and Its ok to agree with the "Bad guy". I get his point too. 

But mina I imagine someone seated in a bus or train refusing to offer a seat to my standing grandmother and it does not sit too well with me.

Feza
17 Mar 2008 08:14

@Madame, I have also never understood the concept of men opening doors for women and stuff like that, cause Me, personally, i'd rather have a man opening a door and getting in first and me after him. 

Actually when it comes to coming in or going out I always say to the man i'm with "after you", letting them go in first. I dont know, i just do it, maybe its a safety or security thing.

sponono
17 Mar 2008 08:21

LOL @  Madame's analysis of the bad guy's background  hi hi hi

well i guess the bad guy has some valid points but also makes a weak argument oh well...hopefully my ailing grandmother doesnt take the same bus/train with him...hi hi hi

sweetie my baby
17 Mar 2008 10:09

hmmm, i think that the 'bad' guy has a few points, but confuses culture at points - like the whole thing of a man entering a room first - culturally is a very chivalrous act - it's to make sure that the place is safe for the woman to enter - so he's being very protective, which is 'good', right? 

culturally, tho - younger people always make room for older people to sit, so on that, he's on shaky ground with me. 

i really think that we need to examine 'western' and 'african' culture very carefully before we dump elements of it, because there's good and bad in everything. and also, culture is based on the way we live - and some of those things aren't relevant anymore. 

like how women used to cook, clean etc in the house, coz the coz men were out farming, hunting, etc - now both men AND women work (ie, hunting, farming etc), so why should work on the home front STILL only be the woman's job? you gotta adjust with the times - culture is forever evolving, changing...

that's just my 2 cents...


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