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the jiggaman : to jig or not to jig?

Written by tha - bang from the blog blah blah on 08 Sep 2008
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A line is been drawn and history is going to asks us ,how did you cross it? It's amazing what a braai can do just to loosen ones grey matter and make you ponder on life's little, great and sometimes shameful trueths. As I was turning the nicely spiced lamb ,surrounded by men drinking sprite and coke,I don't know if it was the sugar content of the drinks or the heat but our conversation fell on te planned 2day strike by COSATU ,if JZ's fails in his attempt to derail his charges.Which really made me think how did we get here?Where did things go wrong and what are we really fighting for? I tried to tackle it from both sides of the coin, side one goes as follows,as far as I understand.

Now we all know the arguments, Jigga mans camp are saying the man is being turned into a scapegoat. That when the arms deal was done , he was not the only man caught with the hand in the cookie jar. It maybe that Thibos, the old NEC and probably uTata too , all got something from the arms deal since it was an ANC led deal but Jigga man is the only one whose been persecuted.Nevermind that Tony did 3 weeks-nyana ko danyane. So there is a conspiracy to get rid of Jigga man so tha he does ascend to the throne.

The second argumement from the camp,which acts like a bullet point  number two to the first one ,is that Jgga man won't get a fair hearing. Since his trial has dragged on for a long time,over six years if I'm right. That Nqcuka and co should have charged him the first time or let it go as and unwinnable case.Left it at that and left poor Schabir to eat his garlic and take his diabetes and hypertension pills at home, with no ugly court case were the jigga man was implicated by default and was actually embarrassed by some of the revelations.

The other camp says Jigga man is corrupt and if he has proof that there were other people who benefited,why does'nt he come out and say? But why doesn't our  crime bursting forces go after everyone and just concentrate on two individuals?mmmmh. Why does Jigga man not want to clear his name in court and lay down the ghost of the arms deal once and for all?Cause he's actully won almost all the cases that has been put before him,like the rape case,why should this one be any different.The same judicial system that held a fair case for him on the rape matter is handling this one.But it seems there's a worrying factor of double standard that are beng applied . If you are rich,politically conectted and the "LSM 1" want you as president ,you can get away with anything? Now if he does not go to court and makes it to the presidency what moral authority would jigga man have to combat corruption such as bribes at home affairs and the police department? But the "LSM 1" seem not to care about that,or do they?

So the question is, where do you stand? Do you think it's fair that Jigga man has been found guilty by the media and the public even before his court case starts? Or do you think its fair that Jigga man always claims to be innocent but is trying his best not to see himself in court facing charges of corruption and racketeering? Is it fair that COSATU, a labour union motherbody,is willing to strie for a none labour matter for two days and picket outside courts? Couldn't the ANChave foreseen this situation that we are in when the were in Polokwane and choose a compromise candidate? Or are we stressing over nothing and Jigga man is not that bad or even corrupt our eyes have been jaded by news reports? Or are the "LSM 1" so jadded and desperate that when Jigga stands on stage and sing anddoes a little jig it gives them hope that finaly one of us is going to be king and thngs might change for us and so they start jigging with him? So many questions and so little answers. I enjoyed the braai,the meat was 'delicious' but my mind is still unsettled.Where do you stand?



147 Comments

carino
08 Sep 2008 05:02

<<<<<<<<<first to reply>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

now, lemme read...

Nonny
08 Sep 2008 05:06

Love ur title....

tha - bang
08 Sep 2008 05:06

its monday lets get those brain cracking

Cande
08 Sep 2008 05:11

I think if Jigga is innocent then that will be proven in court, the same way as they did with his rape cases...
the Cosatu strikes, kids not going to school in support of him and all this marches about him are senseless, because they wont make any difference anyway...
in not so many words, i personally am tired of hearing about him & his camp...

Mathaz
08 Sep 2008 05:12

He should have his day in court, all along he was pleading for his day in court and now that has become a reality, he is fighting even using the constitution to avoid it.  From what i have read about Shabir's case, Zuma is partly to blame for Schabir was the corrupter and Zuma was the corrupted one.  

If there are other people who also got something out of this deal, they were smart engough to do it disceretly, with no evidence to link them to the bribery that went on.  Cosatu is just doing to get 2 days off work and you know when you ask most people why they are supporting Zuma. they won't give you a clear answer.  He is a charmer alright but having him as a President might not be that bad since ANC policies are not solely decided upon by him only but i still say he must have his day in court.  Interanationally his reputation is not tarnished as he made sure that he is wooing foreging investors and they sure would love someone they can bribe to get someting out of Africa.

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 05:13

browsed thru ur article ...I heard on YFM this morning that apparently on the Sunday the cartooonist Zapiro udwebe u JZ agathi i rapist & ANC youth legue Cosatu etc r in the picture ..not sure of the details but 4rm wat i heard it doesnt sound gud & ppl shud accept wat the courts have decided JZ is no rapist & he is not above the law ......
Eish JZ baba wabantu kanti....isono ngawe 
OK now let me read b4  go off tune.....!!

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 05:13

browsed thru ur article ...I heard on YFM this morning that apparently on the Sunday the cartooonist Zapiro udwebe u JZ agathi i rapist & ANC youth legue Cosatu etc r in the picture ..not sure of the details but 4rm wat i heard it doesnt sound gud & ppl shud accept wat the courts have decided JZ is no rapist & he is not above the law ......
Eish JZ baba wabantu kanti....isono ngawe 
OK now let me read b4  go off tune.....!!

Toxic
08 Sep 2008 05:14

*I'LL BE THE SPECTATOR ON THIS ONE*

LM
08 Sep 2008 05:18

i personally am tired of hearing about him & his camp...mee too Cande! I'm tired of hearing about the embarassing ANC/YL's deeds. Am sorry Thabang, am not gonna increase the headache I already have by cracking my skull over those idoitszz!

afrolicious
08 Sep 2008 05:18

eish i thought the article was about thee main jigga nt the sa version,so m gonna run,NO COMMENT

Nonny
08 Sep 2008 05:22

*I'LL BE THE SPECTATOR ON THIS ONE*
Me too TOX....

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 05:23

1st coment u had a braai @ur place this weekend 4real ??...oh gosh Tha-bang ur really freakin me out ...i think i knw u who ur ..mama -wee!!
2nd comment...U Tata as in nelson madiba is suspected 2b corrupt Itjoo!!
My comment 
Politics is a dirty business yazi ..sies phu!! Y r they interoogating Zuma & leaving that goat Thabo.. i smell a rat !

Lady D
08 Sep 2008 05:26

He wanted hid day in court mos,now time is now!let him face the music,if he does not have his day in court,there'll always be that cloud having over him!that ain't good for a future president,he needs to get his name cleared so as to start on a clean slate!

Cande
08 Sep 2008 05:27

Amen LAdy D.

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 05:28

I think il join Nonny & Tox .....ngibe Unozinto ..
The day they scrutenise that ncoli ncoli president of ours (MBeki) il have a A3 full page comment ndiyacaphukela nge higher grade ..mnx umgulukudu!

Username
08 Sep 2008 05:31

The only way the arms deal fiasco would be solved if someone took a closer look at the ANC books from the inception of the arms deal and their communication with the German manufacturers.

Am no JZ fan but he is being used as a scapegoat and Cosatu is doing a great deal at tarnishing his reputation alongside the ANCYL.

Worthless piece of news: Just heard on the news, Fikile Mbalula just got himself uncapped in some initiation school in Cape Town and they put it on the headlines.

awelani
08 Sep 2008 05:35

Gettin jiggy wit it
Na na na na na na na nana
Na na na na nana
Gettin jiggy wit it 
.........................................................

Cande
08 Sep 2008 05:39

Worthless piece of news: Just heard on the news, Fikile Mbalula just got himself uncapped in some initiation school in Cape Town and they put it on the headlines.

uncapped as in? wait lemme think..

Username
08 Sep 2008 05:45

@ Cande H24 terminology

Blaze
08 Sep 2008 05:46

ppl must understand that it is not a coincidence that JZ was accused/charged at the time when he was, the rationale here does not require the skills of a rocket scientist, clearly there IS a conspiracy to stop him from being president, i am not saying he wasnt involved in corruption he probably was, but not on his own, he couldnt have taken those bribes and managed to pull the scales in favour of those companies without the knowledge, and help of other senior members, who are they and why are they not charged?? hongka lefutha mo!!

tha - bang
08 Sep 2008 05:57

Mabhebheza i did have a braai bt it was in klerksdorp at my aunts,so u dont have to worry. As for tata,yes i did mean uNelson Mandela cause the were rumours that he or the children fund got "donations" from the arms company and he got a tony yengeni vehicle and he passed it on to Graca from the arms company.How true is that .....we will have to wait and see.
Then theres the issue that the arms deal started when utata was still pres.
So it could be that Thibos, Trevor Manuel and 80% of the ANC leadership knew about stuff not being right with the arms deal and they may all have gotten kickbacks.the only thing is that its still rumours cause no one has ever truely answered for the sheninigans of the arms deal.
Jiggaman is a headache,but headache created by the ANC and one that us poor "LSM 1" seem to be very happy to let fester.Where wouldit end...do you guys ever ask yourself that?

lepogo
08 Sep 2008 06:00

u all rite-JZ is not smart enough to have pulled the strings during the bribe negotiations-and thats a fact.

Whats the difference btween JZ,Mandela and Mbeki?JZ was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.....

tha - bang
08 Sep 2008 06:03

but blaze is it cool for us to have a party so embroilled in a shady saga as the arms deal leading the country? how about JZ, if there is a conspiracy and his fingers are dirty,should he then lead irrespectively of the guilt that he has?

Username
08 Sep 2008 06:07

Jiggaman is a headache,but headache created by the ANC and one that us poor "LSM 1" seem to be very happy to let fester.Where wouldit end...do you guys ever ask yourself that?

It would end unfortunately when he is in power *God forbid* and shows his true colours like it happened with every so called post apartheid leader. Promised nation double storey houses and delivered match boxes.

The only thing that is making him popular is he is everything that Thabo Mbeki isn’t. A socialist that is “looking” out for the poor “LSM1” and willing to create dependents than build a nation.

carino
08 Sep 2008 06:15

Thing is truth be told... should the Zuma camp not get waht they want, they are going to retort violently and we gon have a Kenya situation... so,...

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 06:15

Whooo*wat a relief ur not that guy...Thank the Almighty thizo unamandla!! 
I have 1agree with Blaze Zuma did not do it on his own ...ofcoz other politicians also got a share but manje bamsula ngama futha yedwa ..!!
when i was young i was liberal & i loved history I had the passion 4news especially politics as young as i want i longed 2b part of the struggle anything that had 2do with toyi toyi id be part of i was an upcoming activist
 I wanted 2b a politician but the more i learned about it the more my dreams of becoming the a president got shattered! 

& besides al these famous & rich politicians bagugile old toppies so i realised by the time i become a president ( if i wud eva) il be in my sixties ...so ke i charged careers ..THANK GOD!!

Cande
08 Sep 2008 06:22

LOL @ MAbhebheza

realist
08 Sep 2008 06:23

He wanted hid day in court mos,now time is now!

He did get his day in court and the NPA was not ready. The judge then scrapped the case from the roll. The scorpions went back to the drawing board to unravel more dirty linen. Now that they have the dirty linen on him they are ready to go to court. What does JZ do he is fighting them using the law and the constitution which btw he is entitled to it. He is not using delaying tactics, he is being smart. He wants to win the case by not ever having to go to court. What is wrong with that? 

if he does not have his  day in court,there'll always be that cloud having over him!that ain't good for a future president

Do the politicians care? I do not think so; they will drum it into our ears that the courts found him not guilty therefore he is not guilty of anything. In Africa politician do not give a damn about morality and integrity. 

he needs to get his name cleared so as to start on a clean slate!

If that is the case, the only way he can do that is to go to the courts. Frankly, I can't see that happening.

tha - bang
08 Sep 2008 06:28

Mabhebheza what was so bad about this other guy mmm?
Carino my friend,don't you think it's a shame we are no being held to ransom by fear? that we are all afraid that if JZ does not get his way his minions will riot? How pityfull is that? we are going back to the80's,instead of moving forward.

Cande
08 Sep 2008 06:28

he probably was, but not on his own, he couldnt have taken those bribes and managed to pull the scales in favour of those companies without the knowledge, and help of other senior members, who are they and why are they not charged

If he could agree to go to court then he would name & shame those other people who were involved!

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 06:35

Thing is truth be told... should the Zuma camp not get waht they want, they are going to retort violently and we gon have a Kenya situation... so,...

you can say that again Cariri, its the Jigga way or the high way...i really fear for this country if Zuma is not made president, safa yiZuma camp madoda coz you know what those people are willing to do, and it starts with an E *hint hint* ...lol

Username
08 Sep 2008 06:40

If he could agree to go to court then he would name & shame those other people who were involved!

And he will end up like Brett Kebble and he knows that too well.

Toodecent
08 Sep 2008 06:40

Aaah Zuma Again.....

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 06:44

...unfortunately tdc

realist
08 Sep 2008 06:53

The only thing that is making him popular is he is everything that Thabo Mbeki isn’t. A socialist that is “looking” out for the poor “LSM1” and willing to create dependents than build a nation. 

100% spot on. Just look at number of shacks here in the African continent.

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 07:09

Wat is LSM1 hle bantu ...??
Tha-bang phela @the complex im very anti social andifuni ukuqhelwa so this guy has been trying 2b the friendly neighbour & makin small talk so on Saturday he came 2invite me kwi braai shame his sweet but his trying 2hard 2b nice ..
Dnt u think those telkom public phones recently installed r stupid they cud have put an ATM arg ,,,anyway back 2JZ..

if Zuma is not made the next president ....kuzonuka kungabolanga strubob...
Amabhunu wud be LOL saying they got the freedom they wanted manje they fighting like hyenas,,asimuncu kodwa!!

Cande
08 Sep 2008 07:19

Mabhebheza its Living standard Measure...
from poor(1) to Average(your 4,5,6, & 7) n to the rich(8, 9, 10) i think Tha-bang did explain it the other day...

tha - bang
08 Sep 2008 07:24

Mabhebheza Living Standard Measure and 1 is right at the bottom.eish i never thought of an ATM lol

anyhow,i hope people are ready to make tough decisions next year cause its going to come to that

carino
08 Sep 2008 07:28

Its so true yazi... that...

if you had to leave two black men and a racist white dude in a closed camp for a night with a gun.... you come in the following day, you find one dead... now, guess, the dead guy, is he black or white?

ANSWER: Black!

Who shot him?... not the white man, obviously coz he could've shot both of them, he's racist mos,...

awelani
08 Sep 2008 07:29

anyhow,i hope people are ready to make tough decisions next year cause its going to come to that;;;True, so whom are u voting 4? lol.

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 07:33

with the way thing are going, am undecided on the voting part

Cande
08 Sep 2008 07:33

True, so whom are u voting 4? lol.

im soo undecisive, im not sure if i should even bother

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 07:34

things

carino
08 Sep 2008 07:53

Nna, im voting for Helen Zille.. better the devil that you dont know than "angel" you've seen let you down.

realist
08 Sep 2008 07:53

im soo undecisive, im not sure if i should even bother

By abstaining will you be making any difference? There are only two choices. Let the status quo remain or make a difference.

realist
08 Sep 2008 07:56

Nna, im voting for Helen Zille.. better the devil that you dont know than "angel" you've seen let you down.

That is fruit for thought.

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 08:15

Carino nami am thinking of taking the DA route, who knows maybe Tony Leon will personally hand deliver me a free pantie as a thank you gesture...
VOTE DA: Free Education
                   Free Houses
                   Free Panties for all

felfel
08 Sep 2008 08:24

My vote is my secret.....

Cande
08 Sep 2008 08:24

lmao Pooky, Realist you really like you ANC(JZ) neh?

awelani
08 Sep 2008 08:30

LMOA @ Pooky, are u sure u will b voting for the DA, it sounds 2 me lyk u will b voting for Nkanyezi, (Free Panties, Free Bra's, Free Weaves etc), lol.

realist
08 Sep 2008 08:31

Realist you really like you ANC(JZ) neh?
What makes you say that? Substantiate please.

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 08:34

I have never voted waste of time& by the look of things i will neva vote but just 2make up 4Carinos vote 2 umlungukazi i will vote 4the KISS party !!
Tanks Cande ..@pooky Dnt u knw the word FREE 2politicians is like breathing they even notice that they r using out of context becoz bangamaxoki !

If u believe that story of FREE This & that ..then itataric iyazi nduba kubu muncu bakho!

Segololo
08 Sep 2008 08:44

I aint jiggging! No way...

Pooky
08 Sep 2008 09:07

Dnt u knw the word FREE 2politicians is like breathing they even notice that they r using out of context becoz bangamaxoki ! 

ikhona na i polititian enenyani gal ??

then itataric iyazi nduba kubu muncu bakho! ahahahah i like this phrase, ndingayiboleka??

mabhebheza
08 Sep 2008 11:21

Ayikho Pooky ngama menemene imugulukudu otsotsi be higher grade ..
My mum loved that phrase gal.....go ahead spread the word!

Cande
08 Sep 2008 11:43

sorry realist, but you really sound like a fan..

Floh
08 Sep 2008 15:04


All am saying in my ZuLu" LIYOZE LIBHOBOKE ITHUMBA, U JZ AKATHULE NGABOMU, MHLA WAZITHULULA  , siyobamba ongezansi"

I am not very good in politics so I will shy away>>>>>>>>>>>

tha - bang
09 Sep 2008 01:57

the way i c it, by not voting you, we are allowing the status quo to continue. I think all the people who are feeling disenfranchised should go and vote.at least it might give the fat cat a wake up call,but ifthe fat cat have more or less the same numbers as the previous election then we are all in trouble.

mazemnyama
09 Sep 2008 05:28

eish i always say politics now are very confusing i dont follow them much but its hard to miss the headlines. always thot i would always vote enc but now am thinking of sitting out the next round, i dont wanna be responsible for putting zuma in the presidents seat. unaynisile u username iancyl and cosatu are making me dislike uzuma even more and to top it i ANC is not doing anything (effective) to calm our fears and bagaye ivoti all they are concerned about at the moment is Zuma. i mean from a person who isnt really politically minded i am scared that 2009 will bring a new type of hell for SA as a whole. whether the DA or ANC wins

nkanyezi
09 Sep 2008 05:52

I think it is pretty clear that NKANYEZI should be President. Go NK Go NK Go NK.

VIVA VIVA VIVA-AMANDLA AWENU !!! :)

Toxic
10 Sep 2008 11:03

I've just been rudely awakened to the fact that pre2004, Zuma was just a man in politics for me. I can't pinpoint the exact moment when he became relevant and subsequently 'despisable-note that i'm not saying despicable' to me. And i've just realised it's because of all the media reports-all the stuff that i've absorbed and digested over the years- that i now hate him. Well besides the fact that he 'swabisa'd' Mbeki ko Polokwane for which i'll never 4give him.

So now here i am wondering why no one raised an eyebrow when Zuma was made deputy president in the 1st place? Why do we think the ANC won't win the next election and therefore Zuma won't be the next president.

we're all going around spotting the holes in the ship but doing nothing about it. Instead we're sittin on our high-horses blaming the captain when we could do something to avoid a ship-wreck. 

Nna, if Zuma becomes the next president, i won't leave the country or curse him to hell and back. The only difference between him and *ahem* former presidents is that we know his dirty laundry. 

Raise your hand if you have no skeletons in your closet that may come to bite you in the arse if you were made president.

With that said, i still hate the man.

mabhebheza
10 Sep 2008 11:51

*waving both my hands* ...I dont have any skeletons Toxic

YET!!

Cande
10 Sep 2008 12:16

*waving my hands too*

realist
11 Sep 2008 01:17

@ Toxic: I thought you hated politics. Anyway you make good valid points. i can't argue with what you have said except for one thing and that is "Well besides the fact that he 'swabisa'd' Mbeki ko Polokwane for which i'll never 4give him. "
I cannot agree with you on that one.


Username
11 Sep 2008 01:44

The ANC is doing a good job at crumbling itself. The latest Malema comedy session prove so, threatening to crush anyone who comes near Zuma and sarcastically cursing out the SACP for its political ambitions. They achieved their goals in Polokwane thanks to the SACP and co. but when it comes to the crunch greed is showing its ugly head.

2009 will see the demise of the once influential political organization due to greed and power struggles even if they manage to rig their way to the top seats.

Oh BTW, your tax money will be hosting an initiation celebration for Fikile Mbalula at the Athlone Stadium on the 4th of October. Happy filling out your tax returns people.

Cande
11 Sep 2008 01:47

Oh BTW, your tax money will be hosting an initiation celebration for Fikile Mbalula at the Athlone Stadium on the 4th of October. Happy filling out your tax returns people.

LOL @ Username

tha - bang
11 Sep 2008 02:00

Tox for me, what really worries me about jiggaman and co is that we now know some of hs dirty laundry and although its out in the open the ANC still want to continue with the man , Why? why couldn't they get someone else who would inspire confidence from the general public than someone who is acting as an agent of division and fear?
i'm really afriad of how the anc thinks these days,it seems to be party line first,country second. then us poor LSM1 go and legitimize that every 4th year. I don't believe in that no more. 
Im no saint, I dont think any of our politicians are saints but its a high indicment on all of us if we let people who are morally and criminally represible to lead us.Aren't leaders supose to be a glue that keeps society together ala nelson mandela,i dont c that happening in the JZ years.but if the us can survive 8 years of bush can we survuve 4 years of Jiggaman, Vavi, Nzimande, Phosa, Yengeni, malema in government...

Segololo
11 Sep 2008 02:12

I hate the man too... and I know I am  not voting for the ANC in the next election.

I blame Mbeki for the mess we are in. Had he admitted to himself that the ship is on its way to greenland instead of Australia... the ship could be sailing in a whole different direction. If Mbeki had stepped down in running for presidncy of the ANC and people like Cyril Ramaphosa campaigned. I would most definitely have some respect for Mbeki and most likely jigga would just be another politician. But he left people no choice but to how him that just because his dad was friends with Mandela, the party is not his village...

realist
11 Sep 2008 02:23

@ Segololo: That is exactly the reason why the ANC is in this mess. By going for 3rd term he messed up the organization. Let us wait and see if they will get the two third majority. If they do then we deserve the leaders we get.

andi01
11 Sep 2008 03:13

I just pray that the judge is sober enough to send Zuma to jail, he will be doing the country a huge favour. We need a new fresh candidate for the presidency (not Mbeki or Zuma). People let us not forget where we come from, let us not be quick to turn around just bcoz 2 people are killing what we spent years building. Voting for the DA will be selling our souls to the devil. lest not loose hope bcoz of some 2 pricks who dont know the value of struggle and that of peoples souls. And not voting will mean we are indirectly selling our souls to the devil. Let us use the power to eliminate the 2 (mbeki and Zuma) and start afresh while we still can. We the majority are the people that put those 2 there, we shud make it our first job to put them down. Yes we had faith in them, and they have disappointed us, let us not loose hope. let us be resilient as abo Steve Biko were while fighting against the apartheid goverment. ndisatshaya.

Username
11 Sep 2008 03:26

Andi01, who in your views can resurrect the ANC of the manifestos, the ANC that oozed confidence, resilience and restored the dignity and faith of South Africans before Timon and Pumba tore it into pieces.

tha - bang
11 Sep 2008 03:30

zuma and mbeki are just figures, theres more to this than just them.their head of bodies, bodies have parts and limbs. the head does not die by itself and leave the body to live on,as well as the body dies not die and leave the head to live on.
the whole zuma saga has proven to me that the cancer in the anc has spread all over. Cause if u look at the current top dogs in the ANC they are not very far from Zuma, only a few have a credible and somewhat clean record. But guys like Phosa, Winnie,Malema and Yengeni they either have dirt on their hands or have been reckless in their positions of power.all i have to say is a 2/3 majority for the anc won't  good for us

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 03:48

Tha-bang: the big question for me is if Motlhantle is not made president, then who else would u rather have lead the ANC? Some unknown man that'll be groomed in time for the next election!!!!

I doubt that'll happen! What we should be asking ourselves is what WE will do in the event of Jigga becoming president and receiving presidential pardon if he ends up in jail before the next election.......

His supporters are telling us DAILY what they'll do if Jigga doesn't win the next election, aren't they?

tha - bang
11 Sep 2008 04:05

Tox Motlhanthe can go and become the next president but my image of the ANC and what it stands for has been tainted. He wont change that at all.
As for the supporters of jiggaman ,well i think that will be something we have to face to and deal with as a country.like we dealt with apartheid,like we dealt with violence in the 80's,like we dealt with violence before the 1994 elections. i am not going to let hooligans and thugs backmail me,i hope the thing goes to trial and if it does and JZ goes to jail.What will happen afterwards will proof once for all how deep and strong has our democracy grown and matured.Im not afraid of hooligans and we should not let them dictate our lives or we will find ourselves with forced removals and land 'redistribution'

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 05:52

i hear what you're saying and to a large degree agree with you. Sure, the ANC's image has been so tarnished it no longer looks like the party of choice. If i, who has access to literature, the internet, people whose brains i can pick, don't know what other option is available for me, what then of the other masses (the true LSM1s)? 

For the ANC not to win the next election, it's really these people whose votes must be swayed, not so? Those people are sitting on their behinds or working their fields and thinkin that they'll vote jigga man in to prove to Mbeki and all the other people that msholozi can and will win this presidency. it's their 'current' life goal.

Isn't your challenge then to go and change these people's votes? i cannot think of another party to vote for, quite frankly and not because i believe the ANC is good but because i don't know what they stand for............any ideas?

realist
11 Sep 2008 06:26

what then of the other masses (the true LSM1s)?
For the ANC not to win the next election, it's really these people whose votes must be swayed, not so?
Quiet right. It isn’t going to be easy to change their minds to vote the other way other than to vote for the ANC. For those who understand why they are voting, what do you base your decision on when you vote for a particular party?

I for one my decisions are based on the following: Safety; Crime in this country is way too high.
Education, presently the education system in this country is messed up and the people in charge haven’t got the faintest idea of what they want to achieve.
Health, the least said the better. 

One more thing, the filth in this country is beyond comprehension. Any party that promises to make it their priority to clean the filth, they have my vote.

Cande
11 Sep 2008 06:36

*interesting*

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 06:57

I for one my decisions are based on the following: Safety; Crime in this country is way too high.
Education, presently the education system in this country is messed up and the people in charge haven’t got the faintest idea of what they want to achieve.
Health, the least said the better. 

ditto!!

One more thing, the filth in this country is beyond comprehension. Any party that promises to make it their priority to clean the filth, they have my vote.

LOL!!

Helen Zille's party is using the crime angle as their 'marketing tool'-what's it called in political terms kana?
I think just about any party that is campaigning against the ANC will PROMISE to tackle the issues u've mentioned Realist (health, crime, education) because they know that's what targets people's emotions.

How do i know that once they get into power they won't forget their promises and rush to line their pockets with the country's 'wealth'? When i vote and if i don't vote the ANC, it'd be a case of eenie, minnie, miney, mo...... wherever my pen lands is where my vote is. 

My problem with these party leaders whose voices are louder than everyone else's on the issue of crime and corruption is that they aren't saying zilch about how to combat crime. Their voices are as effective as the Desmond Dube led million man march against crime.

Just out of interest Realist, will you be voting next year?

Cande
11 Sep 2008 07:09

How do i know that once they get into power they won't forget their promises and rush to line their pockets with the country's 'wealth'? When i vote and if i don't vote the ANC, it'd be a case of eenie, minnie, miney, mo...... wherever my pen lands is where my vote is.

My problem with these party leaders whose voices are louder than everyone else's on the issue of crime and corruption is that they aren't saying zilch about how to combat crime. Their voices are as effective as the Desmond Dube led million man march against crime.
 

ditto

Username
11 Sep 2008 07:31

One of the things we should also consider is “race/colour” voting. We may deny the existence of such but there are people out there who would rather have the ANC in power than vote in a lighter skinned candidate/organization even if they have sound political and social values which they may or may not implement when in power.

The ANC is living off its glory days, take away their past the ANC is nothing.

My vote will go to whoever can lie to me better, smarter and convince me he/she is better than mother Theresa in sainthood. I want my first vote to count. So start lying.

BTW: Tomorrow is the 31st Anniversary of Steven Bantu Biko’s death. I just wonder what he and the rest of the stalwarts of the struggle who lost their lives fighting for our freedom are thinking about the current state of our beloved country and about the current ANC.

realist
11 Sep 2008 07:34

My problem with these party leaders whose voices are louder than everyone else's on the issue of crime and corruption is that they aren't saying zilch about how to combat crime.
100% with you. I do not need their loud mouths telling me that they going to fight crime improve the education and the health system. I want to hear the what, how when, why etc etc. If they do not come up with such I might as well stick to the status quo.
Just out of interest Realist, will you be voting next year?
You bet I will.

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 07:51

One of the things we should also consider is “race/colour” voting. We may deny the existence of such but there are people out there who would rather have the ANC in power than vote in a lighter skinned candidate/organization even if they have sound political and social values which they may or may not implement when in power.

The ANC is living off its glory days, take away their past the ANC is nothing. 

If this was a speech, this is about where i'd clap hands.

My vote will go to whoever can lie to me better, smarter and convince me he/she is better than mother Theresa in sainthood. I want my first vote to count. So start lying. 

hahahhahaha!!!!!

Molilo
11 Sep 2008 07:55

Ladies and gentlemen I understand most of u will not vote 4 the ANC come next year. Rather u vote for AZAPO to honour Steve Biko. Most of their members are educated, I think they might do something. I have this fear for the DA I do not know what it is but I fear that party............

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 08:06

I want to hear the what, how when, why etc etc. If they do not come up with such I might as well stick to the status quo. 

Me too!

Tell me about AZAPO Molilo..........

Molilo
11 Sep 2008 08:14

Tox I do not have info on them I will google them but rather them than jiggamen.
I was made aware of them during the SRC election where I work and they managed to win the elections. Their manifestos where well written and seemed more serious than the PYA.

andi01
11 Sep 2008 08:18

Whatever you do dont vote IFP, i hate a party that classify people according to their tribes and concluding that we Zulu's are the only important people, i was a member trust me i know.

Segololo
11 Sep 2008 08:21

<<My vote will go to whoever can lie to me better, smarter and convince me he/she is better than mother Theresa in sainthood. I want my first vote to count. So start lying. >> my third vote... but all the same, I cocurr!!

Cande
11 Sep 2008 08:28

eish Politics @ tertiary...there was even PASMA from PAC.

realist
11 Sep 2008 08:28

The ANC is living off its glory days, take away their past the ANC is nothing.
Halleluya, I am not the only one.
.

andi01
11 Sep 2008 08:46

@Username-We may deny the existence of such but there are people out there who would rather have the ANC in power than vote in a lighter skinned candidate/organization. I am one of those. My reason being i havent recovered from the scars inflicted on us by the organisations represented mostly by lighter skins. I can easily forgive 2 terms of bullshiting from the ANC than decades of sjambooking, torturing, education depriving and kaffir calling by the lighter skinned. (I apologise for generalising)

andi01
11 Sep 2008 08:50

ANC is bullshiting me at the moment, but its hard for me to forget that they freed me from the "Bantu Education which was designed to indoctrinate Black pupils to accept and recognise the supremacy of the white man over the blacks in all spheres". (courtesy of Chris Tembisile Martin Hani, rest in peace Mkhaya)

Username
11 Sep 2008 09:01

Andi01, thank you for your honesty and you are a breath of fresh air from the ANC comrades that I have interacted with, starting from SASCO to the ANC itself. I am thinking of what is best for the country.

Believe me I am not saying lets vote for the Boeremag or some racist slurring kaki wearing farmer who only sees the k word when looking at black people, but a man or woman who will stand for the truth, justice, equality and benevolence in our Nation,


andi01
11 Sep 2008 09:20

@username-but a man or woman who will stand for the truth, justice, equality and benevolence in our Nation, 2 be honest my beloved ANC has failed to produce a candidate of such calibre. Not that he/she doesnt exist, but its a question of in whose "camp" is he/she  currently residing on.

Toxic
11 Sep 2008 09:46

Not that he/she doesnt exist, but its a question of in whose "camp" is he/she currently residing on. 

And whether or not, people have enough patience with the ANC to want to see this man rule.

I can easily forgive 2 terms of bullshiting from the ANC than decades of sjambooking, torturing, education depriving and kaffir calling by the lighter skinned. (I apologise for generalising)

Yeah and it'll take years for the ANC or whoever rules next to re-dress all those social ills/ atrocities...........which then implies that white rule may just be a farfetched idea right now.

tha - bang
12 Sep 2008 01:24

For some irony ,today Por Biko died in a prison cell for his belives.in ths same day we have teachers and bus loads of people in PMB trying to put pressure on the judiciary that jiggaman does not see the prison cell.theres some irony there.
i for one hope the judge rules in favour of the Scorpions,i'd like the case to go to court and let the dirty linen hang dry once and for all.so that all the "true colours" come out

felfel
12 Sep 2008 01:51

 I'm sorry guys just thought i'd share this joke, its a friday afterall......... : )


"sathan'udanile, uthix'vumile Fikile yindodaaa halala...halala halala

Come in numbers to celebrate this wonderful day!".

Event: UMGIDI KA FIKILE MBALULA
"AMAKHWENKWE ABUYILE"
What: Barbecue
Host: ANCYL
Start Time: Saturday, October 4 at 7:00am
End Time: Tuesday, October 7 at 9:00pm
Where: ATHLONE STADIUM

andi01
12 Sep 2008 01:57

@tha-bang- Its those kind of sad ironies that make me wanna vomit. Damn jiggaman

realist
12 Sep 2008 02:04

Andile, on this topic I have to give it to you: my respect. You did not demand it from me but you have earned it. Your thoughts makes one think and you were not attacking anyone who disagrees with thoughts, you were not emotional with your thoughts and for that you have earned my respect.

tha - bang
12 Sep 2008 02:12

Andile, on this topic I have to give it to you: my respect. You did not demand it from me but you have earned it. Your thoughts makes one think and you were not attacking anyone who disagrees with thoughts, you were not emotional with your thoughts and for that you have earned my respect hear hear.
things fall apart ,the centre is not holding people. in an hours time we will know what direction is the saga going to,will it hae a premature end or will it intensify

andi01
12 Sep 2008 02:14

@realist- thanks choma, we have something in common, we both realists (lol). I dont mean to be modest but I believe I am a mixture of (Steve Biko, Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Chris Hani, Joe Slovo, Barak Obama) LOL

andi01
12 Sep 2008 02:17

@tha bang-hear hear?????, en nou wat is die????the saga going to,will it hae a premature end or will it intensify, I pray for the latter.

tha - bang
12 Sep 2008 02:25

andi01 i was hungry i,im now eating my breakfast,u wont see more errors like that.i meant : in an hours time we will know what direction is the saga going to take;is it going to have a premature end or it intensify (the jiggaman court saga)
but i have the same sentiments as realist on how youve been addressing our little discussion.you are a welcome change to the rhetotic i always get when talking to pro/affiliated ANC members.

andi01
12 Sep 2008 03:07

@tha-bang-the thing is broer, tvsa members are quite intelligent people, you also know how to address you ideas without being rude. Even though at times we didnt agree on things, you did offer me the platform to state my views and you listened 2 what I had to say, that I appreciate and respect.

With the ANC members- Some people think that just bcoz ANC fought,  for freedom, they take that word and use it in their most literal way. I just dont know how other people think really. Organising i strike and have people toy-toying up and down the streets, that is soo 1976 and its related to apartheid. Why have us sweating in teh streets the whole day, stinking of sweat just to get a point through, cant we negotiate, or better yet stay home and watch TV.

Toxic
12 Sep 2008 03:12

tha-bang, i am patiently waiting for yr response to my question: your alternative to the ANC

tha - bang
12 Sep 2008 03:14

Why have us sweating in teh streets the whole day, stinking of sweat just to get a point through, cant we negotiate, or better yet stay home and watch TV.people who missed out on toyin toying still wan to do it lol.but seriously i hope we could get at that level

Cande
12 Sep 2008 03:19

I will "eliminate" you comrade Andi01..
dont talk about us like that, we even having an ANCYL organised bash here in PMB..Im sure Eugene will be perfoming songs from his "Zuma for president" album, its a pity Mageu wont be here to sing his part..
Eish, SABC 2 has it LIVE.please update us peeps..we LSM1'ns dont have TV's at work.

andi01
12 Sep 2008 03:22

@tha-bang- if people like urself, toxic, realist, cande, username, andi01 etc, are given the chance to use our intelligence to fight against the oppressers that are dressed in the (black, green and gold) colours pretending to keep us warm while roosting us, we will get to that level.

andi01
12 Sep 2008 03:24

LOL@Cande-its a pity Mageu wont be here to sing his part, and Mageu has something in common with the Jiggaman ( I love this name, well done to whoever came up with it)

carino
12 Sep 2008 03:28

Madam Dee
12 Sep 2008 04:26

to be honest i hated JZ @ first, but come to think of it ho nkga rotwe and its not on JZ, its definately on our President. Question why are all the people who quit politics when our beloved Mbeki became president are suddenly prepared to back JZ with all his track record. Isnt this strange to you?

Toxic
12 Sep 2008 04:52

Eish Madam Dee, tlogelang Tbose. JZ is a man with a full set of teeth, ha a e kemelle ka maoto a hae

andi01
12 Sep 2008 04:55

@ madam Dee-quit politics when our beloved Mbeki became president are suddenly prepared to back JZ with all his track record. Isnt this strange to you?- Probably bcoz they new with Mbeki's intelligence it wont be easy to get waht they want. but with Mr Zuma's aleged corruption case, they can use bribery and corruption to get to the top.

Username
12 Sep 2008 05:12

Thank you Andi01, couldn’t have said it better myself.

Madam Dee
12 Sep 2008 05:14

@ andi01, u really think so? Do you know that Cyril cud have been the president at the moment and utata was backing him. out of the blue Mbeki was the President.....makes u wonder doesnt it? remember politics are a dirty game dont you think this arms deal thingy was used before as black mail not only on JZ but to utata as well? Why is/ was Mandela quiet. as u have stated before JZ is not intelligent enough to pull this off on his own.the only thing about him thts admirable is that he is stupidly brave to stand up to Mbeki.

Mathaz
12 Sep 2008 05:27

Judge rules in favour of Zuma
Published:Sep 12, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jacob Zuma at the Pietermaritzburg High Court today Picture: Jackie Clausen


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Judge Chris Nicholson has all but cleared Jacob Zuma from further prosecution after a procedural ruling that the Scorpions failed to offer him an opportunity to make a representation that charges not be brought against him.



BLOG: Pictures from the courtroom




AUDIO: Malema confident of a Zuma win



Campaign for Zuma amnesty


“The decision taken by the NPP … to prosecute the applicant … is invalid and is set aside.”


“The respondent is ordered to pay the applicants cost of suit.”


He was at pains to stress: “These proceedings have nothing to do with the guilt or otherwise of the applicant.” 

Source:  The Times


Toxic
12 Sep 2008 05:31

The court's verdict's just come out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

andi01
12 Sep 2008 05:37

@ Madam- dee-Do you know that Cyril cud have been the president at the moment and utata was backing him. out of the blue Mbeki was the President- cud be that utata was backing him, but other members of the oganisation were backing Mbeki. uTata was a president, but within the organistaion he is just a member like any other memeber and his vote is just one vote.

Username
12 Sep 2008 05:38

Guess we should start practising “Mshini wam” as our new national anthem.

Mathaz
12 Sep 2008 05:42

Actually the Youth League and Winnie Madikeza were the ones who made sure Mbeki wins.

realist
12 Sep 2008 05:49

The court is not about whether JZ is guilty or not. It is about the procedure that the NPA followed. He can still be charged that is if the NPA still got guts. Did you hear the scathing attack on Bulelani and TM from the judge?

realist
12 Sep 2008 05:52

Sorry chaps, I meant the verdict. Sorry.

Username
12 Sep 2008 05:52

Madam Dee I have to disagree with you on that one, Jigga isn’t the one standing up to Mbeki; he is actually being pushed into standing up to Mbeki

Without Fikile Mbalula, Zuma wouldn’t be President of the ANC
Without the ANCYL, COSATU and the rest of his “friends”, Mbeki wouldn’t be now just an ordinary member of the ANC. Jigga is being used into furthering other people’s motives, why do you think he is keeping quiet and not blasting those who are declaring to kill in his name.

Like a school jock he is admiring his popularity and not knowing one day those helping him now will call unto him to return the favour, like what happened to Tbose.

Tbose betrayed those who put him into power and is now paying the price for it.

Madam Dee
12 Sep 2008 05:56

Andi01, i have much respect for both men, infact Mbeki has done a lot for us and i am skeptical about Zuma being the next president. look at it this way this thing has been cleverly thought through.Even if Zuma gets to be President he'll only be a puppet to Kgalema and Tokyo.Zuma happens to be the crowd magnet. so i wud not be that worried about the future we have two very intelligent people both from the economic and the political side of things.Economically Tokyo is streetwise and politically i think we all know how brilliant Kgalema can be.

carino
12 Sep 2008 05:59

Zuma wins court bid
12/09/2008 12:07 - (SA)

Zuma wins court bid
12/09/2008 12:07 - (SA)

Pietermaritzburg - ANC president Jacob Zuma has won his bid to have the decision to prosecute him on corruption and other charges declared unlawful.

Judge Chris Nicholson handed down his judgment to a packed Pietermaritzburg High Court on Friday afternoon, saying that the decision was invalid, and the National Directorate of Public Prosecutions ought to have heard the applicant's representation.

He stressed that the application had nothing to do with Zuma's guilt or otherwise.

Thousands of supporters broke into applause outside the court on the news of the verdict. 
News24.com

andi01
12 Sep 2008 06:06

ROTFLMAOL @username Guess we should start practising “Mshini wam” as our new national anthem

♫awu wena uyandibambezela-aaaaaaaa
mshini wam, mshi wam♫

Cande
12 Sep 2008 06:09

*sigh*, we respect the court verdict neh!!

andi01
12 Sep 2008 06:09

ROTFLMAOL @username Guess we should start practising “Mshini wam” as our new national anthem

♫awu wena uyandibambezela-aaaaaaaa
mshini wam, mshi wam♫

Madam Dee
12 Sep 2008 06:36

 @ Carino, i think you forgot this part:-
JUDGE Chris Nicholson’s judgment on the Zuma matter - he found that the prosecution authority had not followed procedure in bringing charges of corruption against Zuma - goes far beyond the procedural issue at hand.
The judge spent some time looking at how the prosecutions authority had developed and inappropriate relationship with government ministers.
But he was most damning of President Thabo Mbeki, finding that his firing of Jacob Zuma was “unfair and unjust”, though not strictly illegal.
The Sapa report on the case puts it like this: “Nicholson said that Zuma believed his sacking was part of rivalry
for the ANC presidency and was a strategy to stigmatise him as corrupt.”
That a High Court judge should find a sitting President behaved so appallingly is unprecedented.
Zuma has long maintained that he is the victim of a conspiracy led by Mbeki and abusing the prosecuting authority. It would seem that a High Court Judge has upheld this view.
Mbeki does not have much time left in office. He ought to do the right thing and quit now.

carino
12 Sep 2008 06:54

....and the plot thickens......

realist
12 Sep 2008 06:55

Who does not agree with the ruling of the judge? Like I said, he wanted to win without ever appearing in the dock.

Cande
12 Sep 2008 07:03

and the plot thickens......

why do you say that?

carino
12 Sep 2008 07:04

♫awusitshele ukuthi uZuma wenzeni....♫

carino
12 Sep 2008 07:07

I bet you half the people dancing outside that court, dont really know what all this means.

mabhebheza
12 Sep 2008 07:27

im @home watching the news ..Better than any movie ive seen 
mzwakhe read his poem ..LMAO yah leya chap uyathetha 
Blade nzimande & CREW r having a ball ..ziyawa emaraisburg ayoyo!!

headlines etv: Zuma wins!!

Centrepiece
12 Sep 2008 08:07

I wonder what does this say for us? Should we celebrate or should we sigh with relief or maybe we should cry? WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

Cande
12 Sep 2008 08:24

♫South Africa we love you...our beatiful land ♫
♫ Lets show the whole world, we can bring peace in our land♫

andi01
12 Sep 2008 08:42

@centrepiece-Should we celebrate or should we sigh with relief or maybe we should cry- we should be ourselves, we should stand firm on what we believe in, we should let this (whatever) it is deter us.

Toxic
12 Sep 2008 08:48

This isn't an election peeps, JZ (ANC) still have the election to worry about-besides the NPA going about their processes the right way.

Nna i say what SA must be worrying themselves with is whether or not they'll vote for JZ if he's the presidential candidate in the next election. And if not him (ANC), then who?

Well, that's what i'll be doing anyway!

Nonny
12 Sep 2008 09:02

we should let this (whatever) it is deter us.
Andile, are u saying we SHOULD let this deter us, or we SHOULD'NT let this deter us?

carino
12 Sep 2008 09:22

This isn't an election peeps, JZ (ANC) still have the election to worry about-besides the NPA going about their processes the right way.
Nna i say what SA must be worrying themselves with is whether or not they'll vote for JZ if he's the presidential candidate in the next election. And if not him (ANC), then who?
Well, that's what i'll be doing anyway!


Thank you, Toxxzzz....Some people actually think this means the entire arms deal case has been thrown out of court... Nna the way I understant this, JZ will still be charged, just going though the correct procedure this time, even the sober judge made it clear that his ruling isnt about wherether Zu** is guilty or innocent.

Toxic
12 Sep 2008 09:35

Nna the way I understant this, JZ will still be charged, just going though the correct procedure this time, even the sober judge made it clear that his ruling isnt about wherether Zu** is guilty or innocent. 

Aha!!! o seke wa wara wena, Zuma won't track you down. You can write his name out in full you know.....you do mean Jacob Zuma akere? LOL!!!

Beyonce Knowles Bee
12 Sep 2008 10:36

But then i guess what is happening somehow is a great relief for us all cause i was forseeing danger SA turning to mini Kenya or Zimbamwe for that matter. i was actually getting scared for my life!!!!

But then what can be said Malema le Vavi said it, i am sure gore Nyanga ya JZ is filthy rich sms itsene confirmaing a job well done! tl tl tl lol

tha - bang
15 Sep 2008 03:20

theres nothing worse like techninicalities,but they exist for the sake of transperancy and fairness.so i'll respect the judgement on that level.but the saga of the arms deal will continue to hang like a dark cloud over Zuma and the ANC.
honestly i dont see the Scorpions recharging him and I dont see an ANC led government establishing a commision of inquiry into the arms deal,to deal with it once and for all.But I'd love them to proove me wrong.
next years is an election year and we may have JZ for president but the question is,will the general public support jiggaman and his song nevermind his jig?

Ms. Jay
15 Sep 2008 04:14

Why does this all sound so familiar? Zimbabwe is living proof of what happens when u allow corruption and blind loyalty to be the order of the day - sorry I didn finish reading all your replies but I am sick already - our people down that side are struggling reallllllllly struggling but just a hand full are living well and reaping riches. I hope and pray we use wisdom when we vote - if its not Jiggers way then the highway to war is the order of the day then you have a dictator on your hands. Thabis failed and even more so forcing those Zimbos to just sign some agreement so that FIFA cant move 2010 as all his failures would be made public is shameful...sorry I went off topic guys but ruri and truri - we need Divine wisdom here or else we will end up like Zim..we cant allow bad seed to be left to rule the country - once that happens the whole tree will rot

andi01
15 Sep 2008 05:06

How come we never see blockers like "mathata, molibellis, Thobeka Jeli etc" on articles like this, phofu ke politics isnt every one cup a soup. i wud have loved to hear their views

tha - bang
15 Sep 2008 05:08

we cant allow bad seed to be left to rule the country - once that happens the whole tree will rot tell that to the dancing and singing masses

Ms. Jay
15 Sep 2008 07:40

It makes me mad uyazi....................why disrupt school and production to make a damn point - its like drinking poisen and hoping your neighbour will die, you just spite yourself in the long run! The day lost will never be recovered, i dont understand people sometimes....we spend so much time on necessary strikes and loose sight on the real issues in life...i'm outta here - tha- bang great bloggs by teh way, I look forward to them :)


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